Will anyone come close to Wayne Gretzky's records?

More importantly, does anyone care?

The game was different back then. I remember in the early 90s lots of players scored in the 150-160pts range but scoring was already on the decline. Lemieux came very close to a number of Gretzky's (highest #goals in a season, most consecutive games with a point, etc) records but he was always plagued with health problems. The one season he played the majority of games he got 199pts and 85 goals.

Also, If gretzky had been on a shitty team like Lemieux was, he wouldn't have put-up the numbers he did. He had the benefit of a great tream. Yes, he made it better, but the Oilers in the 80s would have been a great team even w/o Gretzky. The Penguins were crap until Lemieux dragged them in to the play-offs. The other big difference is that Gretzky was sort of off-limits in terms of how you could play him. He never saw half the harrassment on the ice that Lemieux got, even with his back injuries.

All this to say that records aren't everything and that I think Lemieux was without a doubt the better player.

You're right though. I don't think anyone will put-up gretzky's numbers again unless the way the game is played changes significantly.

Yes.

Gretzky never won a championship without Messier. Messier won a championship without Gretzky.

Stats aren't everything.

+1.


Messier was a better hockey player because he won a championship without Gretzky? Come on.

Funny, we had this discussion at work this week. To a man we all chose Mario Lemieux over Wayne Gretzky if we were putting together a fantasy team.

That said, I can't imagine an offensive era like that of the early to mid-1980s happening again.

I think the real competition is between the two you have listed.

I couldn't name a single record that Wayne Gretzky holds.

Who is Wayne Gretzky?

It's not your fault. High levels of estrogen were clearly a problem and likely lead to your early obession with liza minelli.

Liza came into my life fairly recently. The original obsessions were Tom Jones, Sinatra and The Golden Girls.

That is like saying Michael Jordan needed Scottie pippen to win the 6 championships they won.

robert Horry has 7 championships. Right place right time

Would any of us select Robert Horry or Scottie pippen over MJ?

Not me

don't think he's saying that messier was the better player. Gretzky has awesome stats, but there was one player that was better. That Lemieux was able to drag his shitty team to two Stanley cups is pretty impressive.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Lemieux wasn't amazing. Gretzky did have the advantage of playing with Jari Kurri, Mark Messier, Grant Fuhr, Paul Coffey, and Craig McTavish. But, I still think he was a better player.

I'm not sure that Pippen v. Messier is fair. A lot of people consider Messier to be one of the best to ever play the game. I don't think anyone could make that argument for Pippen.