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post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I don't know where you think I was attacking any one specific individual. I haven't used the word "you" in any directed, non-generic way in this whole discussion. I did bristle a little at his


But all of my comments were generalized in nature, respectful, and "to the idea" rather than "to the man"--which is what that quoted remark is, IMO.

So if PETA fans are not posting here on this forum to criticize...even by implication....what in the world are they posting here for? Esp. once they have had basic answers given to their question such as was given in posts #6, 11, 12, 13, and 14. What is the expectation? Let's get real here. Why pursue it? why pursue it in an arena where there is likely little or no significant knowledge much less interest in faux leather shoes. Again, it doesn't really square with reality.

As far as me "combating violent crime" etc., I do my bit. Just not out in the streets or in places where the most likely outcome...surprise, surprise...is gonna be push back.

If that troubles you, maybe you should try for camp counselor. IMO...respectfully.

 

I was trying to point out that the OP didn't start with anything hostile or offensive, in my opinion.  I am not commenting on all the stuff that got traded back and forth later.  I think the OP would probably have been wiser to bow out, but I know it can be hard not to respond, if one feels the "other side" started it and won't let it drop.

 

I have no problem with "push back" here and am not trying to say people shouldn't argue or debate anything here.  I was try to say, in general, that ethics isn't a great subject for argument or debate anywhere.  Also, though I realize I don't have standing to do it, I was advocating for a more respectful forum experience, as that is just my preference.

 

DWFII, I want to say that I have valued your posts on this forum more highly than anybody else's.  You are doing all of us a great service by sharing your knowledge, wisdom, and expertise with us.  I doubt you would be here if you didn't feel strongly about these matters, so I respect that you express yourself strongly at times and don't wish to tolerate ignorant people spreading harmful falsehoods.  Some of them might be consciously lying, but most are probably just deluded, so I say "falsehoods."

 

My work does include helping people to get through life without UNNECESSARY conflict, so you're not too far off on the camp counselor thing.

 

Regards,

Jon

post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirling View Post

I was trying to point out that the OP didn't start with anything hostile or offensive, in my opinion.  I am not commenting on all the stuff that got traded back and forth later.  I think the OP would probably have been wiser to bow out, but I know it can be hard not to respond, if one feels the "other side" started it and won't let it drop.

I have no problem with "push back" here and am not trying to say people shouldn't argue or debate anything here.  I was try to say, in general, that ethics isn't a great subject for argument or debate anywhere.  Also, though I realize I don't have standing to do it, I was advocating for a more respectful forum experience, as that is just my preference.

DWFII, I want to say that I have valued your posts on this forum more highly than anybody else's.  You are doing all of us a great service by sharing your knowledge, wisdom, and expertise with us.  I doubt you would be here if you didn't feel strongly about these matters, so I respect that you express yourself strongly at times and don't wish to tolerate ignorant people spreading harmful falsehoods.  Some of them might be consciously lying, but most are probably just deluded, so I say "falsehoods."

My work does include helping people to get through life without UNNECESSARY conflict, so you're not too far off on the camp counselor thing.

Regards,
Jon

No worries. But since you are a "camp counselor" biggrin.gif maybe an understanding of both sides, as well as the history would help.

As you know...or imply that you know...I have been dealing with these questions for more than 50 years. I'm not "playing" with new ideas or wondrously facile ideals. I am not insensible to the moral and philosophical issues nor to the issues of abuse and cruelty...esp. as it pertains to what I do and what my whole life is about.

I've thought about these issues a lot...A lot. Probably far more than anyone here even long time vegans. Sanity (an undervalued commodity in our culture) demanded it.

Beyond that, as a self-professed newbie can you guess how many times this discussion has arisen on this forum? And how much the remarks resemble all the ones that have gone before. Or how patiently people here...in general...try to be with folks that seem to have an agenda?

I don't have anything against tomford or his choices or his POV. I have said that in general I find such perspectives ill-conceived and cognitively dissonant. But it's no skin off my teeth if anyone wants to forego the pleasures of a medium rare rib-eye. More for me.

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post #48 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


No worries. But since you are a "camp counselor" biggrin.gif maybe an understanding of both sides, as well as the history would help.

As you know...or imply that you know...I have been dealing with these questions for more than 50 years. I'm not "playing" with new ideas or wondrously facile ideals. I am not insensible to the moral and philosophical issues nor to the issues of abuse and cruelty...esp. as it pertains to what I do and what my whole life is about.

Beyond that, as a self-professed newbie can you guess how many times this discussion has arisen on this forum? And how much the remarks resemble all the ones that have gone before. Or how patiently people here...in general...try to be with folks that seem to have an agenda?

I don't have anything against tomford or his choices or his POV. I have said that in general I find such perspectives ill-conceived and cognitively dissonant. But it's no skin off my teeth if anyone wants to forego the pleasures of a medium rare rib-eye. More for me.

 

I should have realized how often threads like this get started by people with PETA extremist agendas, whether the OP for this thread has one or not.  I don't believe that kind of agenda belongs here on styleforum.  I imagine it gets very tiresome.  Just looking at this thread, the original posting appeared innocent, but I am perhaps being naive, as a newbie here.

 

Regarding my personal views, I think people often fail to realize all of the ways in which their very lives negatively impact the world.  While it is good to make an effort to minimize the negative impact, I feel it's impossible to do so in anything like a complete way, thus I also try to have a positive impact in order to offset the negative impact.  I hope that ultimately my existence will end up a positive thing for the world, but it's difficult to measure and, by the time the full assessment can be performed, I'll be gone anyway.

 

Regards,

Jon

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