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High quality artificial/faux leather shoes? - Page 2

post #16 of 48
Originally Posted by tomford View Post

Is there anyone who have any experience of high quality artificial/faux leather in this forum? Anyone knows anything about the fabric "Lorica" ?

I'm going to ignore anything about style, fashion, brand image, etc. The simple problem is merging high quality & synthetic in the same sentence, as nobody really has experience with this because:
1. I'm not sure it even exists
2. If it does (i.e., good synthetic leather), then it would have to be bespoke because no high-quality shoemaker would use those materials. I doubt anybody on this forum has asked what you are asking

To have truly vegan soles, you'd need to swap so many different leathers for synthetics, cellulose board, etc and I think you'd have a complex mess on your hands. Plus, I'd wager even with a good synthetic, you'd lose the breathability of natural leather and thus your feet would become puddles!
post #17 of 48
Thread Starter 

@leetpuma I don´t think this is the right forum to discuss vegetarian/meat diet but I will give you a short answer. If you want to discuss this more you are welcome to PM me.

I used to really really enjoy meat and ate it almost everyday. Loved wagyu beef, parma ham, iberico ham etc. One day I stumbled upon a news article about a stunning machine malfunctioning at a slaughterhouse. I became interested and read some more and then I read Jonathan Safran Foer - Eating Animals.


After that, meat didn´t taste as good. It was impossible for me to ignore everything that I knew was wrong about the meat industry. When my future children asks me what I did when I knew about factory farming I don´t want to respond - I closed my eyes and continued as usual.


@DWFII you sound like a really smart person and I like the way you present your arguments. Maybe you are right, maybe it´s the definiton of high quality/classic/elegant that´s need to change, and that inevitably will change if you are right in your prediction that all shoes will be synthetic in 30 years. What do you base that assumption on?


@FlyingMonkey thank you for your story and your tips. I guess I am just comfortable and want to fit in. Especially when I am in a business environment since I am a sales manager and deal with some customers in the finance sector.




Maybe this is the future? Using all parts from naturally dead people. A little creepy but definitely environmental friendly.

post #18 of 48
Originally Posted by tomford View Post

@DWFII you sound like a really smart person and I like the way you present your arguments. Maybe you are right, maybe it´s the definiton of high quality/classic/elegant that´s need to change, and that inevitably will change if you are right in your prediction that all shoes will be synthetic in 30 years. What do you base that assumption on?

Thanks for the kind words....

Just on my experience in the Trade and knowing that once upon a time no part of a shoe was synthetic. That and the fact that the most ubiquitous and most popular kinds of footwear being worn today (athletic shoes) are already nearly entirely synthetic. The move to synthetics is accelerating even in high end shoes, such as those you mention. .
Maybe this is the future? Using all parts from naturally dead people. A little creepy but definitely environmental friendly.

AFAIK, this is almost entirely bogus...like the photoshopped pic of one of the Queens own Highland Guard regimentally "flashing" her from under his kilt.

Edited by DWFII - 9/2/14 at 12:46pm
post #19 of 48
Some stray thoughts...

Life itself is a veil of tears, it is fraught with pain...pain that we carry around with us for years and years.

Death is the end of that pain. It is the end of the memory...the knowledge...of pain.

Death is not the worst thing to happen to any creature.

Living in a world where food is scarce, where the environment is so polluted that any sense of ease is impossible, a life of affliction, of loneliness, of hopelessness...all these are far worse.

It doesn't matter how an animal dies...it only matters how they live.

Eating meat or wearing leather has little or no bearing on whether an animal had a good or even tolerable life.

Becoming dependent on processes and materials--such as plastics, rubber, chemicals, and the industries that produce them, or products from them--which make life miserable or difficult for every living creature except ourselves, does.

In that regard, the choices we make affect all life on the planet.

Just another

Edited by DWFII - 9/3/14 at 12:46pm
post #20 of 48

http://www.bravegentleman.com/shoes.html - some steps in the right direction (pun intended).

post #21 of 48
Thread Starter 
Thanks @jsphahrp

I still haven't purchased any non leather shoes, but I am looking out for alternatives.

I have given this a lot of thought after watching the recent exposés about wool production. The ideal thing would be good plant based materials but in the meantime, wouldn't we all agree that it would be better with good leather labelling?

We are used to meat labelling but with leather and wool there is no labelling at all. Might as well be dog leather in the leather collar you purchase for your dog.

This is probably the wrong forum but I think it's an important issue for us leather/wool consumers.
post #22 of 48

No problem at all, @tomford. I don't believe humans should be keeping animals captive or killing them for their body parts. However, I'd lived over 30 years eating meat and dairy and wearing wool and leather and I have always been a fan of good shoes. Over the last year I made a concerted effort to be animal product free. Diet was easy but finding quality classic shoes has proved more difficult. My wardrobe is now almost entirely animal free and will be by the end of Jan 2016 (a lot of things have gone on eBay!). 


I know that http://wills-vegan-shoes.com is bringing out a Goodyear welted line in January 2016, and it looks very good. I have seen a glimpse of a monk, derby and half-brogue - I'll definitely be buying a pair.

post #23 of 48
Again, there is a cognitive dissonance, if not hypocrisy, here that bothers me.

First, the uppers on the shoes in the link above are composed of "faux leather"...meaning that they are plastic or some variation. Plastic is made from petro-chemicals and as such is far more deleterious to the environment...and animals and all life on this planet...than leather will ever be. I guess the deferred and unseen death and suffering on a wholesale basis is somehow more palatable than having the tangible reminder of responsible management of resources anywhere in view.

Second, the whole look is "of leather." It is plastic pretending to be leather. It is bogus and counterfeit and inauthentic. And absolutely dishonest, IMO, to eschew leather and animal products and then embrace something that looks like leather. Why? Why, if a person wants to promote or extol the vegan lifestyle would you want or need to make (or buy, or wear) shoes that look like leather?

Is there a certain sanctimoniousness in a company that promotes such products? Is there a certain deliberate attempt to deceive and exploit the naivete of the consumer?
post #24 of 48
Thread Starter 
@DWFII I understand most of your view and you make an important point about petroleum.

I think a lot of people who want fake leather simply wants it because they want to conform with the rest of society. Personally I believe that I as a business leader with leather shoes and a nice suit has better chances to influence people in my surrounding to make animal friendly choices regarding their diet. If I went full on vegan and started to dress very differently people would simply categorize me as a semi nut case and they wouldn't listen to my logical arguments on why we should treat animals better. Sometimes you have to compromise in order to achieve your goal in the big picture.

I am not a vegan and I don't believe it is possible to live without harming other animals. I also believe that when we create life (farm animals), we have a responsibility to make sure they have a decent life. Since there is no way to make sure that the animal who was killed for leather had a decent life (no labelling), I look for alternate sources.
post #25 of 48
Well, fair enough although my remarks were not aimed at anyone posting here...specifically. More towards the maker of the plastic shoes and society's, oh-so-au-currant, fixation with "magical thinking."

That said, human beings exploit their environment and the resources of that environment in order to survive. Leather is a by-product of the need for food. Even today few, if any, animals are killed solely for their hides. It would be waste and counter-survival. Even the flesh of alligators is sold for food. And most shoe leather comes as a by-product of the meat industry.

Having said that, one has to wonder if the refusal to acknowledge...or think about...the implications of such choices as buying plastic shoes is really simply naivete or something more--perhaps willful ignorance. On the order of, perhaps, "La la la la, I can't hear you."

I am quite sure that more damage is done to the web of life by the petro-chemical industry than the meat and leather industry, even if all of human history and usage of leather were factored against the more recent history of plastics, etc..

And in passing I have to observe that if a person's (a vegan, for example) principles,ideals and/or beliefs are so weak...so subject to compromise...that they would ignore the implications of plastic in order to "conform with the rest of society" then one has to question their principles--it literally begs the question. Of sincerity. Of authenticity. If only because "conformity" is very nearly the antithesis of any "principled position."
post #26 of 48

@tomford @DWFII - there is a really good film called Earthlings that examines human exploitation of animals, we could survive and would probably thrive if we didn't exploit in the way we do. Conspiracy is worth a watch too, the devastation caused by farming far outweighs all other environmental impacts.


Some people appreciate the value of both life and aesthetics.

post #27 of 48
Originally Posted by jsphshrp View Post

, the devastation caused by farming far outweighs all other environmental impacts.

If farming is so deleterious, and hunting and/or animal husbandry abhorrent, what's left? Plastic food goo? Soylent Green?

Maybe we could survive without exploitation of the natural resources around us...although some of this depends on your definition of "exploitation" and to what extremes you want to go...but the interesting thing is that we are only here to postulate such a future because we have spent tens of thousands of years exploiting the natural resources around us.

As far as the aesthetics is concerned...IMO, it takes a considerable amount of rationalization and self-justification to attribute any aesthetics to plastic shoes.
post #28 of 48
DWF, I think you're out of your element.

It's extremely well supported and shown in literature that methane gas (produced by cows more or less farting in a field) is something on the order of 10x more effective at "trapping" heat (a greenhouse gas) than is carbon dioxide. It has been well documented in relation to global warming. Now factor in chrome tanning (which to my understanding is some 90% of the industry) and you have other environmental factors to consider, specifically water quality.

But let's be realistic for a minute. Leather tanneries are not the root of water pollution or atmospheric pollution. I'd be shocked if they even account for 0.1% of water pollution in the world. I don't know the number exactly but when you factor in all the cars and oil-consuming processes, leather tanneries probably fall well short.

That said, I'm a "meatatarian." I eat meat at least twice a day, if not ever meal. And I sure as hell enjoy my leather goods.

With regards to the vegan who doesn't want to wear leather shoes: I'm sure you're aware that factory farming is much more prevalent in the United States than it is in Europe. For this reason, one of my friends will only eat meat in Europe because of the relative consumption and lack of factory farming. If you also subscribe to such thinking, consider buying leather shoes from European countries, where the leather is all sourced from within Europe. Think of it as wanting to buy a diamond ring but refusing to buy a "conflict" diamond.

Also, part of the reason why European leather is considered better than from other parts of the world is because of the way the animals are treated, thus resulting in better hides.

Hope this helps.
post #29 of 48
Global warming isn't the be-all or end-all of environmental degradation--the destruction of the Louisiana shrimp industry is directly related to chemicasl released by DuPont. Similarly the problems in the Gulf of Mexico due to the BP disaster.

It's true I am not an environmental engineer but it's also true I am not just someone who has latched onto an idea because it is socially popular either...ie. without having thought it through or considered the implications.

And, it seems to me that if one is going to take a stand based on abuse or suffering then all the causes of suffering are morally equal.

Flatulence is a fact of life especially in animals that eat hard to digest foodstuffs. Once upon a time, millions and millions of bison roamed the plains of North America. I wonder if they farted? Or maybe only where no one could hear? lol8[1].gif For that matter, maybe someone could start a movement to ban human flatulence? I suspect there's more of us than there are cattle in feed lots.

FWIW, I suspect if cattle weren't raised as another RTW, manufactured product, much of this problem would go away. That's essentially what you imply with the bit about "European leather."

But the only reason cattle are raised like that is because of our own "factory mentalities." We create the demand. And it's not just a demand for a specific product, it's a demand for speed, low cost, and instant gratification. The least amount of effort for the most amount of profit with no serious consideration for real, substantive quality. In that regard, it cuts across the board.

If we demand plastic shoes because the circumstances of our chosen lives dictate that we can't be true to our own beliefs, we are the problem, not the 'ethicality' of leather or eating meat...or eating nothing but tofu, for that matter. Those are just symptoms.
post #30 of 48
And, aside from perto-chemical industry, how do you produce other natural materials like cotton canvas or linen? Maybe by farming? And the processing of cotton and linen to get to usefull cloth? And what about GMO cotton?

And the original poster who works as a sales manager for financial services clients. How about telling your client to make some moral choices to begin with?

I mean, you can't have it both ways really. Either you are pillar of morality or you are not.

I'd rather wear dead-cow-made shoes (that last lifetime) and sheep-haircut-made suit then some plastic/cotton crap that I throw away every two years.
I mean do you think sheep minds getting a nice haircut? I think these animals can live perfectly meaningful life. I don't use word happy, as I do not know what it means, even in humans. We don't live to be happy, but to be useful.
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