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Shoe Dissection: Allen Edmonds, John Lobb, Bostonian and More! - Page 3

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patek14 View Post

given the great dissections on a range of mass produced shoes here from J&M up to crockett, I really want to see the "guts" of that $210 shoe. if its the same as AE, then wow that is a deal of a lifetime

It's probably less than $5 difference in BOM cost. What do you think could be done in terms of cost saving?
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

So...neither here nor there, I just got done watching an interesting video on Goodyear Flex construction,Blake Rapid Flex and Bologna Construction. If I'm not mistaken all of these forego a true insole and substitute a forepart liner. There is something like a half insole of either leather or some sort of synthetic (fiberboard) in the heel and waist area but the front of the shoe inside is fundamentally constructed around a glorified sock liner.

After looking at the deconstructed 20 year old Vass and the hole in the insole--an insole that is probably 10 times thicker than the forepart of the methods names above--and considering how much wear the thin "sock" forepart is realistically expected to stand up to--I am feeling much more cynical about the shoe manufacturing Industry than I was before.

C&J insole isn't all that bad. Sure it's not at the same thickness comparing to Vass or other hand welt shoes, but surely is better than paper or reclaimed leather insoles.

Vass, if they uphold their quality standard even till today, is likely the best volume produced shoes for the price.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

C&J insole isn't all that bad. Sure it's not at the same thickness comparing to Vass or other hand welt shoes, but surely is better than paper or reclaimed leather insoles.

Vass, if they uphold their quality standard even till today, is likely the best volume produced shoes for the price.

I wasn't referring to the C&J. Didn't really look at it close till just now. Thin but a true insole...not like the Goodyear Flex or Blake-Rapid Flex.

I can't speak from experience with these but my initial reaction..and it's just speculation...is that there might be another level of quality below cemented.
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Thin but a true insole...not like the Goodyear Flex or Blake-Rapid Flex.

I can't speak from experience with these but my initial reaction..and it's just speculation...is that there might be another level of quality below cemented.

“Bologna”, “Sacceto”, “Tubolare” are all shoe constructions derived from moccasin construction and do not use a conventional insole (although sometimes a lose insole might be added if you do not want the extreme flexibility these constructions are able to offer).



Shoe by Santoni


On top of my head I can think of at least three classic shoe constructions “Moccasin”, “Turn-Shoe” and “Opanka” which are not built around an insole (I'm sure there are more).

After all, a bag of one kind or another to shove your foot in is the oldest kind of footwear.
post #35 of 45
Those Paris Lobbs are just about the cleanest thing inside, too. Their cordwainers make the pairs as much for themselves as for the customer.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

“Bologna”, “Sacceto”, “Tubolare” are all shoe constructions derived from moccasin construction and do not use a conventional insole (although sometimes a lose insole might be added if you do not want the extreme flexibility these constructions are able to offer).

After all, a bag of one kind or another to shove your foot in is the oldest kind of footwear.

Yes, but go back to my initial remarks about GoodyearFlex. If the Vass with its relatively thick leather insole developed a hole in the insole, how will the "saccheto" which is maybe 10 times thinner than a good quality bark tanned insole insole hold up in wear? Not well...or long....I suspect. And then how is it repaired?

I suppose that like we see with preserved examples of the "oldest kind if footwear" people can take to stuffing grass and bark down in the shoe to 'patch' the holes.

The dark brown leather is the lining and the tan leather is what will take the place of an insole. Call it a "footbed liner." In this photo the upper is attached to the lining already and is scrunched up in the left hand below the last. It will be pulled over the last and the welt sewn through the upper and into that ridge/seam formed by the lining and the footbed liner.



--
Edited by DWFII - 9/6/14 at 12:40pm
post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

“Bologna”, “Sacceto”, “Tubolare” are all shoe constructions derived from moccasin construction and do not use a conventional insole (although sometimes a lose insole might be added if you do not want the extreme flexibility these constructions are able to offer).



Shoe by Santoni


On top of my head I can think of at least three classic shoe constructions “Moccasin”, “Turn-Shoe” and “Opanka” which are not built around an insole (I'm sure there are more).

After all, a bag of one kind or another to shove your foot in is the oldest kind of footwear.

Correct me if I am wrong, but shoes are created around soles to protect the feet, not as bags to dress them up. Thus the abundance slippers, sandals, and mules in early histories. And then boots for horseback riding.
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Correct me if I am wrong, but shoes are created around soles to protect the feet, not as bags to dress them up.

Footwear is created around feet to protect them. What type of footwear is required differs from one geographical area to another,

Every item of footwear has a section you walk on, so even a bag has a sole (section). But not all types of shoe construction use an insole. Most notable example is the American moccasin, which is essentially a bag with the structural seam running on top of the shoe. Although in modern times the moccasin has gained an outer sole (which wasn't necessary when native Americans lived on the prairie), in classic moccasin construction there is no need for an additional insole.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

the moccasin has gained an outer sole (which wasn't necessary when native Americans lived on the prairie), in classic moccasin construction there is no need for an additional insole.

nor any need for repair
post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

It's probably less than $5 difference in BOM cost. What do you think could be done in terms of cost saving?

From the pictures alone of the mass produced GY welt shoes, there were a lot of savings opportunities on materials...

1. cheaper leather on uppers
2. cheaper insole leather
3. composite / layered insoles
4. lower grade outsoles
5. thinner outsoles
6. rubber welt
7. synthetic heel stack

those were just the obvious ones to a retail consumer
post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Footwear is created around feet to protect them. What type of footwear is required differs from one geographical area to another,

Every item of footwear has a section you walk on, so even a bag has a sole (section). But not all types of shoe construction use an insole. Most notable example is the American moccasin, which is essentially a bag with the structural seam running on top of the shoe. Although in modern times the moccasin has gained an outer sole (which wasn't necessary when native Americans lived on the prairie), in classic moccasin construction there is no need for an additional insole.

Native Americans cleansed by Englishmen wears mocs. But Native Americans cleansed by the Spanish wears sandals.
post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 
anybody have more dissections to share?
post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patek14 View Post

anybody have more dissections to share?

 

Why so curious? You wont see anything significantly different.  Besides, you could probably get a good sense of how shoes are constructed from the various shoe manufacturing plant videos on youtube.

 

Churchs dismantling.  Credit to Achille on the now defunct French depiedencap forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #44 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Why so curious? You wont see anything significantly different.  Besides, you could probably get a good sense of how shoes are constructed from the various shoe manufacturing plant videos on youtube.

Honestly...I'm really curious to see inside of a base line Meermin. I'm hoping somebody sees this thread and is inspired to sacrifice
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post





Paper? Fiberboard? toe stiffener.
Quote:


Celastic? Cloth? heel stiffener.
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