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Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..." - Page 62

post #916 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

What they were saying is that bonafe himself will not consider to install them on single soles.

Yes I understood that.
My point is two different perspectives from two well regarded makers.
post #917 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Yes I understood that.
My point is two different perspectives from two well regarded makers.

So that means that bonafe does consider the real potential damage on the inseam caused by metal toe plates on single outsoles.
post #918 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

So that means that bonafe does consider the real potential damage on the inseam caused by metal toe plates on single outsoles.

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That would be my suspicion as well. And those that dismiss the notion out of hand or don't consider it at all...well, I disagree.

As a professional. As a shoemaker.

It would, of course, be easier to just not consider anything that inconveniences me and to take the customer's money without comment.

Some of us, I fear, will always hear what we want to hear.
post #919 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

We have done them on single soled Bonafe's. Not a problem.
As previously mentioned we each have our own perspective. FWIW, Silvano Lattanzi will install Lulu's on their single soled shoes upon request.

I'm not saying that anything happened, but wouldn't you have to resole after your installation to be sure nothing happened?
post #920 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

So that means that bonafe does consider the real potential damage on the inseam caused by metal toe plates on single outsoles.

Maybe, you'd have to ask him.
Apparently Lattanzi doesn't see it that way. Then again you would have to ask him as well.
post #921 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Maybe, you'd have to ask him.
Apparently Lattanzi doesn't see it that way. Then again you would have to ask him as well.

Why don't we just ask you? You seem to know...without any objective experience...better than at least two professional shoemakers. One of whom has explained in detail...essentially presented a blueprint for common, open inspection...the potential problems inherent in this approach.

But then knowing better is your default perspective, isn't it?
post #922 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyor View Post

I'm not saying that anything happened, but wouldn't you have to resole after your installation to be sure nothing happened?

No, you re-sole when the soles wear out. If the inseam stitches, welts fail pryor to the sole wearing (as a result of installing the mtp's) you can be sure the shoes would be returned to us with one angry customer. I would know about it. All I have been saying over and over is it doesn't happen.
But I suppose the statement is correct, some believe only what they want to believe.
post #923 of 1710
Apparently Vass shoes doesn't apply metal toe plates on single soles either. They did it in the past, but now only available on double soles.
post #924 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyor View Post

Would you still have these concerns on double, or thicker soles such as Budapesters? Curious because Enzo Bonafe will not put metal plates on single soles, but will on double upon request.

Toe wear and tear is accelerated for thick or double sole shoes.
post #925 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

Apparently Vass shoes doesn't apply metal toe plates on single soles either. They did it in the past, but now only available on double soles.

Did you ask them why? And when was this change?
post #926 of 1710
Don't know when it was change but not too long ago and also didn't ask why.
post #927 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmss View Post

Don't know when it was change but not too long ago and also didn't ask why.

Sounds like a supply/cost or installation issue to me.

Or they had suddenly been converted by DWFII after several decades of putting on metal toe plates. In the mean while other top notch bespoke shoemakers don't share DWFII's views and continue to put metal toe plates on.
post #928 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Sounds like a supply/cost or installation issue to me.

BS! Sounds like whistling past the graveyard to me. Fumbling babbling rationales deployed in a hurry.
Quote:
Or they had suddenly been converted by DWFII after several decades of putting on metal toe plates. In the mean while other top notch bespoke shoemakers don't share DWFII's views and continue to put metal toe plates on.

It just tells me that somebody with experience...real experience, not just la-la-land, dreamworld fantasies, has had enough feedback and taken sufficient time with an open enough mind, to really think about it. And that they too, along with Bonafe...who is evidently not top notch at least not according to you and Nick (and of course, both of you have been making that same point about me all along)...have begun to question the wisdom of what is fundamentally a destructive process.
post #929 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

continue to put metal toe plates on.

Oh and BTW, I will put metal toe plates on (reluctantly), as well...just as I'll put Topy on...if the customer insists.

But I'll also make a point of telling the customer all the things I tell people here...and for the self-same reason--it's the right, the ethical, thing to do.

That said, I admire...even if no one else does...Bonafe's integrity in refusing to undermine or compromise his work.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 3/18/16 at 12:43pm
post #930 of 1710
If a customer requests us to do something that we think is detrimental to a shoe we refuse to do it even if they insist. Rather we suggest that they find someone that will.
They're plenty out there looking to make a buck anyway they can.
I guess there are different levels of integrity. That's just my version.

Between Crockett & Jones and J.M. Weston we average approx. 50 pair of MTP's per month. Have been for years.....
For them to do this many knowing such a service will damage their customers shoes simply defy's any logical persons thinking.
No speculation here, just facts.
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