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Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..." - Page 59

post #871 of 1710
Just sharing my experience.
Autosolers are widely used in repair. Apologies, I thought that was what you were referring to.
I don't know of any makers that use them....Maybe you do.
post #872 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntempleman View Post

Humbled.

I believe it's a wax butt from Bakers - and please everybody order some, as they wont make up my brown backorder unti they've got enough to make it worthwhile.

How very Bakers like! They also wont make me any bag hide until more people order some. Maybe we should all buy one of each!

Charlie
post #873 of 1710
I wouldn't have been quite so upset if my client and I weren't so keenly expecting the 5 week turnaround time I was initially quoted.
post #874 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntempleman View Post

I wouldn't have been quite so upset if my client and I weren't so keenly expecting the 5 week turnaround time I was initially quoted.

It's worse if you order from here.
post #875 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


...most good makers use a solid leather heel stack with a "combination" toplift--rubber about where you would mount a heel plate. Why this isn't a good solution at the toe as well defies logic....IMO.

--

 Wait. I thought the problem was that at the toe one has to cut into the, relatively thin,  sole, probably the stitching as well, in order to mount a flush toe plate- rubber or metal. At the heel you have this thick block of leather/rubber to which to attach the plate. You can cut into it with no damage to the structure of the shoe. I am sure there is more to it than that. There always is when shoe experts explain what is really going on.

post #876 of 1710
Talking about traditional tanneries, have you ever heard of Pietro Presot? Like Baker in UK, Presot is the only tradional tannery left in Italy and is considered among the best if not the very best tannery in the world for soles/ bends
post #877 of 1710
@DWFII: Why would a rubber toe plate be any better (or less damaging) than a metal one? Is it the absence of screws?
post #878 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

It's worse if you order from here.

I'm weaning myself off.
post #879 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

 Wait. I thought the problem was that at the toe one has to cut into the, relatively thin,  sole, probably the stitching as well, in order to mount a flush toe plate- rubber or metal. At the heel you have this thick block of leather/rubber to which to attach the plate. You can cut into it with no damage to the structure of the shoe. I am sure there is more to it than that. There always is when shoe experts explain what is really going on.

Well partially. When you cut into the outsole at the toe, you naturally cut the threads. And, if you don't go back and pick the old, cut stitches, and resew the outsole it leaves nothing to hold that part of the outsole on except glue and the screws used to mount the toe plate. Some will do that--restitch, most, I suspect, won't.

But if the screws are holding on to anything, half an outsole with no thread connection is not enough, IMO.

Furthermore the holes in the toe plate are positioned as close as they can be to the edge but in such a way as to prevent the screws from coming out the welt. That often leaves the screws in the inseam. It's a no-win situation all the way around.

Some claim they need it to prevent wear at the toe, but a simple splice of, let's say, Vibram Fineline, restitiched, would work as well or better...IMO. And if the cheapening, coarsening ugliness of the toe plate...as well as the Vibram splice...bothers you but you still don't want to spend the money on a resole, a leather toe tip splice probably wouldn't cost anymore than toe plates. Not in this shop at any rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

@DWFII: Why would a rubber toe plate be any better (or less damaging) than a metal one? Is it the absence of screws?

Yes, that and the fact...implied above...that the rubber splice is going to need to be stitched . I don't think a credible job can be done without stitching.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 3/16/16 at 3:20pm
post #880 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntempleman View Post

I'm weaning myself off.

I understand. I love Baker...all the way around. I recommend it and extol it...and buy elsewhere--such as Masur
post #881 of 1710
Thank you.
I have had bespoke shoes made with both metal and rubber toes plates (from the start). So far, neither has shown any particular problems (although neither version has been worn to the point of needing a resole). On the other hand, the shoes I had made with no toe plates have shown serious wear at the toe (running through the stitching) since I didn't always have plastic toe taps on them.
That is just my anecdotal experience and doesn't prove anything, but I would feel safer having shoes made with toe plates than without. Though I think your idea of a rubber toe plate that is then restitched would be the best of all worlds for me (or why not installed and stitched from the very beginning?).
post #882 of 1710
I can't claim to love them - they were traditionally the last ones you'd use, and now that they're the last one left in the uk that's become a self fulfilled prophesy. The leather is ok. Gradually moving elsewhere as stocks run out, though. Garat has been very consistent so far, with a wide range of options to specify.
post #883 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntempleman View Post

I can't claim to love them - they were traditionally the last ones you'd use, and now that they're the last one left in the uk that's become a self fulfilled prophesy. The leather is ok. Gradually moving elsewhere as stocks run out, though. Garat has been very consistent so far, with a wide range of options to specify.

Be glad, count your blessings...you have option, lots of options.

Here across the pond we don't have many (everything's geared towards manufacturers) except to order from abroad. And no disrespect to anyone but I have too often found that many old European and British firms really don't want the hassle and extra paperwork involved with International sales. I even had a Swiss company simply refuse to sell to me (at an offered premium) because they wanted to "reserve their product for Swiss makers."

What evah!
post #884 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntempleman View Post

I can't claim to love them - they were traditionally the last ones you'd use, and now that they're the last one left in the uk that's become a self fulfilled prophesy. The leather is ok. Gradually moving elsewhere as stocks run out, though. Garat has been very consistent so far, with a wide range of options to specify.
My message above may have been missed in the exchange , what about the Italian Presot as an alternative to Baker
post #885 of 1710
First I've heard of Presot - there's not a lot of overlap between Italian and uk shoe industries.
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