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Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..." - Page 104

post #1546 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Side liners are pieces of leather that are sandwiched between the liner and the vamp running from the end of the heel stiffener to the beginning of the toe stiffener. They run along the sides of the shoe and get incorporated into the inseam to help maintain structure and to minimize creasing and cracking. Think of them as extensions of the heel stiffener. You can see those pieces in the deconstructed HW shoe in the link above. Sixth photo from the bottom right hand side of the photo.

Facing bolsters are leather pieces that get sandwiched in-between the lining and the quarters and sit behind the facings to reinforce the eyes of the shoe.
What I've been saying all along and for ages--it's a decision tree and it starts with the decision whether to make shoes or make money. Everything follows as surely as day follows night.

 

Thanks! This is most clear!

post #1547 of 1710
DWF > re Windsor chairs, I love them and have a collection of over fifty, all Eighteenth Century American. The quality of their construction, and the respect the craftsmen had for their raw materials, give each of the chairs a life, evident after more than two hundred years. As goes without saying, they were made by hand, and as to their surface finishing I believe they used sharkskin as an abrasive.
post #1548 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by well-kept View Post

DWF > re Windsor chairs, I love them and have a collection of over fifty, all Eighteenth Century American. The quality of their construction, and the respect the craftsmen had for their raw materials, give each of the chairs a life, evident after more than two hundred years. As goes without saying, they were made by hand, and as to their surface finishing I believe they used sharkskin as an abrasive.

Interesting. I can see how that would be possible.

That said, and by way of indicating that mine was not a throw-away remark...I turned wood for some years and became fascinated by wood and woodworking, although never to the point of real expertise much less "mastery."

But I was particularly drawn to a documentary done by Public Broadcasting which interviewed a woodworker from the Smithsonian or Colonial Williamsburg or somewhere like that.

These institutions need to know how artifacts were originally constructed, not only for archival purposes but to restore them properly.

The gentleman being interviewed declared unequivocally that Windsor chairs were made without any resort to sandpaper (sandpaper leaves grit behind) and that scrapers were the tool of choice.

I understand, however, that some agents such as pumice and dried grasses (horsetail?)...and probably shark skin, as well...were used to polish, if not actually reduce, the final surface of the wood.

Now all that may be apocryphal and it's unquestionably hearsay in this context. But scrapers, in one form or another, did, and still do, play a dominant role in the making of a high quality bespoke shoe (many makers deliberately eschew sandpaper insofar as it is possible) and they remain a critical tool in fine woodworking.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 8/30/16 at 5:45am
post #1549 of 1710
Yes, the insoles of my bespoke shoes - Lobb St. James particularly - still show the scraping marks, even after years of wear.

Using the straight edge of, say, a piece of broken glass, on a cylindrical surface would, presumably leave facets, visible under magnification, which I don't find on the legs of my best Windsors. I assume a flexible surface was used to finish them. The spindles, particularly on the earliest chairs - pre-1780 - are another matter as they weren't turned but were formed with a spokeshave and have their irregularities to show it..
post #1550 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by well-kept View Post

Yes, the insoles of my bespoke shoes - Lobb St. James particularly - still show the scraping marks, even after years of wear.

Using the straight edge of, say, a piece of broken glass, on a cylindrical surface would, presumably leave facets, visible under magnification, which I don't find on the legs of my best Windsors. I assume a flexible surface was used to finish them. The spindles, particularly on the earliest chairs - pre-1780 - are another matter as they weren't turned but were formed with a spokeshave and have their irregularities to show it..

I expect you're right although I would say...FWIW...that when breaking glass, straight edges are neither wanted nor very likely to occur.

PS...and on edit...I used to shape and refine the reeds for my clarinet with purposed-created sections of dried horsetail. Bamboo can be quite hard and horsetail quite abrasive, this I know.

--
Edited by DWFII - 8/30/16 at 6:34am
post #1551 of 1710

Not so much a technique as a stylistic preference but what is the history of diamond brogueing?

 

It is far less commonplace than the round punching but I find myself strangely drawn to it.

 

Is it a much more modern pattern?

post #1552 of 1710
DWF > No surprise that you were a more diligent reed player than myself. I'd just hold a selection of tenor sax reeds to the light and buy those with the most even thinness.

btw, not having touched my horn in many years, my own version of "the actor's nightmare", which I have from time to time, is of walking quickly through New York, late for a gig, and realizing that, even if I can find the club, my reeds are all decades old.
post #1553 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by well-kept View Post

DWF > No surprise that you were a more diligent reed player than myself. I'd just hold a selection of tenor sax reeds to the light and buy those with the most even thinness.

btw, not having touched my horn in many years, my own version of "the actor's nightmare", which I have from time to time, is of walking quickly through New York, late for a gig, and realizing that, even if I can find the club, my reeds are all decades old.

I took lessons from a well respected professional...who steered me towards a special mouthpiece and refining my reeds. But I never got as far as playing professionally or even semi professionally. Mostly just with my wife (flute) for kicks. I had/have an ebony Leblanc Noblet (pretty early). I liked to play swing era jazz.

I haven't touched mine in years either although I tried to pick up the pennywhistle again early this year...until my wife started reminding me to write from my new home.

It was tough enough remembering how to read music but to retrieve the kind of (limited) fingering flexibility I had at 30, was very hard.

Fingers now old and slow and often confused...at least when it comes to pennywhistle.
post #1554 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Cash View Post

Not so much a technique as a stylistic preference but what is the history of diamond brogueing?

It is far less commonplace than the round punching but I find myself strangely drawn to it.

Is it a much more modern pattern?

Since no one else is stepping up...I'll just observe that it seems reasonable to me that if the mechanical (industrial?) ability to create a round hole punch exists then the ability to create a diamond shaped punch must also exist.

IOW, the two punch shapes must have arisen nearly simultaneously.

All the rest is personal preference and "Style."
post #1555 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Since no one else is stepping up...I'll just observe that it seems reasonable to me that if the mechanical (industrial?) ability to create a round hole punch exists then the ability to create a diamond shaped punch must also exist.

IOW, the two punch shapes must have arisen nearly simultaneously.

All the rest is personal preference and "Style."


​Thanks DW - that sounds logical.

 

I just assumed that the round hole was more traditional and therefore popular.

post #1556 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Cash View Post


​Thanks DW - that sounds logical.

I just assumed that the round hole was more traditional and therefore popular.
Well, unquestionably the round holes are more popular. All I'm saying is that I don't think that it's a given that round holes are older or more Traditional.
post #1557 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Cash View Post

I just assumed that the round hole was more traditional and therefore popular.

The German company Goetz Service (probably the largest suppler of shoe making products in the world) offers in their current catalogue punches in these designs and sizes:




Those punches are not cheap and very few firms will have a great number of different designs in all the various sizes.. They might have the odd diamond or heart left over from some previous job. Of course, if you as bespoke customer insists, they might buy-in a diamond-shaped punch just to fulfil your request. If your tastes are even more extravagant, a tool with your unique design can be specially made just for you.

Alternatively you might get your punching laser-cut into the leather
post #1558 of 1710
Thread Starter 
Yep, the HCC did a non-profit group buy that I "brokered" some years ago and along with half a dozen other members I got a number of broguing sets as well as a several sizes of ornamental punches in stars, hearts, and diamonds, and some individual round punches in a range of sizes. Plus both "handles (1 and 3).

Best punches I've ever seen but the guide on handle #1 is near-as-nevermind worthless and the broguing triplets don't quite align themselves following curves as well as one would hope.
post #1559 of 1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


The German company Goetz Service (probably the largest suppler of shoe making products in the world) offers in their current catalogue punches in these designs and sizes:




Those punches are not cheap and very few firms will have a great number of different designs in all the various sizes.. They might have the odd diamond or heart left over from some previous job. Of course, if you as bespoke customer insists, they might buy-in a diamond-shaped punch just to fulfil your request. If your tastes are even more extravagant, a tool with your unique design can be specially made just for you.

Alternatively you might get your punching laser-cut into the leather

 

Very informative post - thank you. This is why I come to Styleforum.

 

I would have thought the more established bespoke makers would have a few punches of varying sizes and design though I didn't realize there were quite so many.

post #1560 of 1710

@DWFII

Pardon me, I have a question today, pertaining to stitching methods. I know that this has been touched upon in the very early days of this thread (sorry to bring this up again), but this is regarding the "norwegian split toe" design, and the "round closed stitch" method. 

I have attached 2 pictures illustrating what I am referring to: 

 

 

 

With regards to the particular techniques used. I am aware that there are some possibilities. 

Some makers use 2 pieces of leather joined together at the split toe seam with that stitching technique. 

Some makers execute the same stitching method on a single piece of leather to create a similar effect (ie, not a true split toe, but a decorative feature somewhat). 

 

Apart from the fact that there is potential to save more leather when using 2 pieces, and also the desire for the authenticity of having a true "split toe" with 2 separate pieces of leather. Are there very specific construction requirements, or any desirable features that make the 2 piece method superior to the other?

 

Once again, thank you for your time.


Edited by ThunderMarch - 9/2/16 at 6:14pm
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