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Ongoing Bespoke Projects - Page 46

post #676 of 1722
No butt pleats, I'm afraid.

First fitting went well - The back rise was lowered so that the trousers, although slim, could fall in a straight line in the back.



I'm impressed with the finishing work done on the inside as well.



After the back rise, seat and thigh adjustments are made, I come back again for the second fitting to check to see if any other tweaks are necessary, and then choose details, e.g. pocket styles, button closures, & etc.
post #677 of 1722
Just had the second fitting of a suit in the LL Raf blue PoW Piuma. Very poor photo quality, but I think it looks quite promising given it is my first order from this tailor. Pants will be shortened as will the sleeve(s). I reckon the jacket is quite short, but hey, it's Italian biggrin.gif

post #678 of 1722
On the first order, will a great tailor generally achieve the same quality of fitting (at the cost of more time) which he would with an old client who has come repeatedly?
post #679 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylantaylormoss View Post

On the first order, will a great tailor generally achieve the same quality of fitting (at the cost of more time) which he would with an old client who has come repeatedly?

While you'd like to think he/she should, it's highly unlikely.

 

That said, any tailor worth his/her salt should make your first garment in a manner better than anything not bespoke...though slight tweaks and improvements would be expected with future commissions.

post #680 of 1722

No.

 

By way of analogy, will you be able to fully satisfy your partner on the first date without having learned the curves of her body?

 

 

Which is to say, engaging in heavy petting with your tailor is the fastest way for him or her to learn your contours.

post #681 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylantaylormoss View Post

On the first order, will a great tailor generally achieve the same quality of fitting (at the cost of more time) which he would with an old client who has come repeatedly?

Seems highly dependent on the tailor. If he or she is good, I don't see why not.

There should be distinction here between fit and style. A tailor should give you something that fits perfectly on the first order. Whether you decide to change the style at the margins on subsequent commissions is up to you.
post #682 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

I also had a NSM fitting (first fitting) the same day.


 

 

How many fittings do you typically have with NSM?

I had my first a few weeks ago, and they said that it definitely will be ready by the next time they visit Stockholm... hmmmm

post #683 of 1722
That's an awesome piece of work. Is that pretty representative of the NSM house style and quality?
post #684 of 1722
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylantaylormoss View Post

On the first order, will a great tailor generally achieve the same quality of fitting (at the cost of more time) which he would with an old client who has come repeatedly?

No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

No.

By way of analogy, will you be able to fully satisfy your partner on the first date without having learned the curves of her body?


Which is to say, engaging in heavy petting with your tailor is the fastest way for him or her to learn your contours.

I've been tickled a lot by some tailors. And by tickled, I mean tickled you dirty pervs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Seems highly dependent on the tailor. If he or she is good, I don't see why not.

There should be distinction here between fit and style. A tailor should give you something that fits perfectly on the first order. Whether you decide to change the style at the margins on subsequent commissions is up to you.

Emphasis on should. In reality, I've never experienced that, nor has anyone I've talked to about bespoke.
post #685 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post

Emphasis on should. In reality, I've never experienced that, nor has anyone I've talked to about bespoke.

Are you distinguishing between fit and style? The two aren't the same to me.

IMO, fit is limited to very basic things, such as whether the collar sits on your neck, whether the fastening button pulls, etc.

Style is about design details, including whether the jacket is short or long, body fits full or slim, shoulders extended or narrow, etc.

You can have a jacket that fits perfectly, but isn't to your liking. Maybe the shoulders aren't extended enough, or maybe they're too narrow. Or maybe you think the jacket is too short. IMO, those are better understood at stylistic details; not fit.

I expect the first commission to fit perfectly. That is, the collar should fit on the neck, etc. Whether the stylistic details are to the wearer's taste seems highly dependent on the client and tailor. Just because something needs to be shortened, or if you felt the shoulders are too narrow, doesn't mean the jacket technically doesn't fit. Just means you don't like the style.
post #686 of 1722

I think your definition of "fit" is highly narrow and it's strange to me that you talk about a kind of universal concept of "fit." This idea of "just because you don't like the style, doesn't mean it doesn't technically fit" -- where did this "technical" idea come from? There are countless different schema and systems for fitting clothing on the body and they differ depending on the country or book. The idea of a ubiquitous concept of "fit" sounds like something pulled out of a GQ manual.

 

The articulation on the body should be much higher than whether something sticks to your neck, and that articulation is seldom achieved on the first try. Also, if your subjective idea of "fit" is looser or tighter than what the tailor imagines in his mind's eye, and you don't achieve synchronicity of goals at the outset, you will receive something that feels ill-fitting to you. This is not a question of "style," but of ergonomics.

 

If the jacket is too short or too open, the lapel a certain size, fine, we can call it style. But if the pants are too narrow and they feel tight to sit in, they do not fit me, in my subjective interpretation of ergonomics. Your ergonomic threshold has to interface with the tailor's. The whole reason we have tailoring is because fit is not universal. One man's parachute pants are another man's skinny jeans.

 

Anyway, these mis-fitting issues are legion at the outset.

post #687 of 1722
edit: nm.
post #688 of 1722

1, I think the comment about "shoddy back-alley tailor" is a straw man. That was not implied by my comment. I already stated that the issue is ergonomics.

 

 

Rock of eye super ubermensch wizard tailor that always makes everything perfect, and the rest is styling -- this is part of the mythology, nothing more. As Sander already indicated, fit problems happen. It's not a skill problem, it's just a problem of matching two subjective interpretations of ergonomics. This has almost become a semantic game with the terms "fit" and "style" -- almost as confusing as the useless "style" and "fashion" dichotomy.

 

One my tailors is fucking outstanding. But the first pants he made were just a bit too tight to me. In fact, I think that happened with every tailor I used. I consider that a fit issue. Are the pants "wrong?" Is the fly sewn to the buttocks instead of the front? No. But the pants are made to fit someone else, not me.

 

It's not a manufacturing defect. It's just a part of the process of iterative design. This happens with anything made to spec, whether it's a chrome widget or a leather sofa.

 

 

And I agree, a fit on the neck, shoulder, and chest is something you can get MTM at a department store, so I don't know why that is your basis for if something "fits" from a tailor. It seems both a very low bar and a rote oversimplification.

post #689 of 1722

Does that NSM shoulder treatment looks strangely like a roped shoulder? I thought they did Spalla - or is it just because the shoulder hasnt settled yet?

post #690 of 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

edit: nm.

Not sure what you edited here, but sprout2 is in a world of his own. I can barely understand what he's trying to say, but am pretty sure it has little to do with fit...
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