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What makes expensive shoes (John Lobb, Edward Green etc) worth the price?

DWFII

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There is no substantive difference between GY welted, RTW shoes...at any price. I'm not saying that there is no difference but it is mostly superficial.

All that glitters is not gold.

GY...there is very little, if any, difference in the materials, machines or techniques used to close a GY welted shoe. At any price point.

RTW: since customers fit themselves, fit cannot be laid at the feet of the manufacturer and cannot be charged for, or attributed as a reason for choosing one brand over the other.

Materials: insole quality can differ from leatherboard at the low end to vegetable tanned leather insoles of some substance at the high, but such difference do not account for the huge price discrepancies.

Similarly heel stiffeners and toe stiffeners...most RTW makers, at any price point, are using synthetics to one degree or another.

Heel stacks...at the low end, paper; at the high end, third party sourced leather heel blocks of indeterminate quality.

Uppers...some high end makers use more expensive, better finished leathers. But again this is often superficial...less dye more wax. Maybe younger animals. For some makers and for some customers, the leather used for uppers may be the raison d'etre for charging higher prices...and certainly it affects the look of the shoe in the longer term...but underneath it is still a fiber mat derived from animals. And much of what is gained by using better quality hides is lost in clicking--all manufactures cut shoes from hides for maximum yield and to maximize profit. And, as long as that is true, no one can be certain they're getting prime cuts. We've seen this over and over again in these discussions.

Linings...at the low end, half leather/half canvas. At the high end all leather...again clicked for maximum yield from a not very high end hide.

Outsoles, at the low end rubber, and crappy, flanky synthetic-veg tanned outsoles; at the high end dense pure organic bark tanned outsoles, often finished magnificently--glitter.

Closing techniques...virtually identical. Low end shoes may use slightly longer stitches...and perhaps a little less finesse... but people who admire the Austro-Hungarian makers pay extra for long stitches. Go figure.

In the end it comes down to whether antiquing and twenty coats of hand applied wax are worth an extra $1K.

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bengal-stripe

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DWFII

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True...but only if you think that newbies and those asking questions that they don't know the answers to, are not legitimately worthy of a response.

My post was number 16.

Where were you for those first 15?
 

DWFII

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What makes an expensive wine like Chateau Pétrus worth the price (compared to $7.50 bottle of plonk)?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303919504577520711642717718

http://www.bbr.com/producer-400-petrus


Obviously, as both are fermented grape juice, there are no substantive difference between the two.


Not true--time, energy, creativity, materials.

I suspect that if you compare the amount of time it takes to make a $200.00 GY welted shoe to a $1500.00 shoe there would be very little difference excepting finishing and public relations.

Why do you think...how can you think...it takes less time to gem and inseam a $200.00 shoe than a $1500.00 shoe?! Or click? Or close?

And manufacturers are factories! At a certain point, creativity ain't in it.

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akoustas

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To simplify the answer to the OP:

There are several "steps" in terms of buying.

The first is to buy a well constructed, leather soled shoe (Allen Edmonds, Meermin). At that point you already have a better pair of shoes on your feet than 85% of the people out there. $300-$400 range

The next step up is purchasing a pair with superior leather and a more elegant last. Carmina, J Fitzpatrick $500 - $650. Now you have a shoe that's better than 95% of the folks out there

The next step up would be to get a shoe that builds on that even further. You're looking at finer leathers, close to zero imperfections and a host of other features others here are infinintely more qualified to speak to. At this point you're at the 99% of the spectrum.

The question is: What are YOU looking for?

I have a number of pairs of Allen Edmonds that look nearly new after years of wear and garner many compliments. I can tell some of the workmanship isn't as good as others and the lasts aren't my favorite but they are GREAT shoes for the price.

I also own a couple pairs of Carmina's and J.Fitzpatricks and the jump in the level of quality is noticeable. The designs are more unique and the comfort level is definitely higher. Both are fantastic options if you're looking to spend a bit more and will offer you years of wear.

I haven't invested in a pair at the "next step up" because that really doesn't fit my wants or my needs. The level of detail at that stage (while certainly wonderful) just doesn't make up for the price differential in MY mind. At that point you're looking at diminishing marginal returns. I think most here will agree that the difference betwee a $1100 shoe and a $600 is much less than a $600 shoe to a $300 shoe.

John Lobb and Edward Green are rightly positioned near the top of the shoe ladder. It's up to you to determine if it's worth the purchase based on the criteria mentioned. Do some research into the characteristics of each brand and you'll find out.
 

Kuro

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True...but only if you think that newbies and those asking questions that they don't know the answers to, are not legitimately worthy of a response.

My post was number 16.

Where were you for those first 15?


Why do you think my post was specifically directed to you?
 

SuitedDx

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I believe many understand the mark-up for MSRP; one of the many pulls of mass produced shoes is the disounted price or clearance opportunity. Granted, this limits the selection greatly, but if one is able to procure popular brands such as EG, G&G, and JL at discounted prices (i.e., $500-$800), then the price becomes a major factor. Also, the percieved discount in prices provides some psychological reinforcement. Granted, HW shoes can probably be had still for comparable prices, but knowledge and marketing towards the bigger firms skews buying practices.

Hopefully OP will get to try a few different styles, construction, and brands and decide what's right for him.
 
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Fuuma

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Not much horse left at this point.

Here is the Fuumalicious (tm) secret to lookin' good:

-I buy shoes I like and don't really think of price as correlated to anything. I either want to pay the price or not for the specific pair I'm interested in.
 

diadem

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Quote: How exactly are you not thinking about price if you have to determine whether you'll pay the price for the specific pair you're interested in or not...?
 
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Fuuma

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Quote: How exactly are you not thinking about price if you have to determine whether you'll pay the price for the specific pair you're interested in or not...?
1) Step 1: do I want this pair 2) Step 2: can I pay this price 3) Buy or not I don't think of how this one is made by hand by a Romanian dwarf while the other one was a quick glue job from some drunk factory worker named Giorgio. I'm not trying to know if it is a good deal or if it was made in a way that make it worth it or etc etc, just if I like it, if I can pay it. From the point of view of an MC person I'm buying "overpriced fashion shoes cause I'm gullible blablabla" but then I like my ****** Margiela boots, they have the silhouette and texture I enjoy and go well with what I wear. I also have some Massaro, Corthay, Lobb, Materna, Vass etc. I don't think "hey this Massaro is overpriced compared to Vass, let's get another pair of Vass."
 
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diadem

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So...you care about aesthetics only? Serious question, I'm not trying to belittle you or anything.
 
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Fuuma

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So...you care about aesthetics only? Serious question, I'm not trying to belittle you or anything.


Aesthetics can include of course factors related to quality, in the end I go for an instinctive like/dislike and keep it at that. I am sure that price versus quality unconsciously factors in (i.e. I'll perceive some handmade Vass as worth a little more than said Margiela) but I would say it is a relatively minor factor. In the end I think people who purchase luxury, including Mcers, like the idea of quality more than quality itself, which is often hard to discern anyway. I certainly never think to myself "this stupid 1.5K shoe is so worth it, wow!!" I mean luxury is never worth it from a rational point of view, that's why it is luxury.
 

DWFII

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Why do you think my post was specifically directed to you?


Just the quick juxtaposition...but also it's the kind of implied criticism...nothing ever direct...that I've gotten recently. If it truly wasn't, then I sincerely apologize for suggesting it was.
 

DWFII

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Aesthetics can include of course factors related to quality, in the end I go for an instinctive like/dislike and keep it at that. I am sure that price versus quality unconsciously factors in (i.e. I'll perceive some handmade Vass as worth a little more than said Margiela) but I would say it is a relatively minor factor. In the end I think people who purchase luxury, including Mcers, like the idea of quality more than quality itself, which is often hard to discern anyway. I certainly never think to myself "this stupid 1.5K shoe is so worth it, wow!!" I mean luxury is never worth it from a rational point of view, that's why it is luxury.


More power to you. I think that's probably a good way to approach it ...if you can afford to be cavalier about construction and ignore substance in favour of "style"--glitter, IOW...but it doesn't really speak to the OP's question. IMO.
 

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