Door opening etiquette - Page 4

Ah, see that's why I suggested "After you" as verbal accompaniment.

A lady gave out to me for holding the door open once -- she said something like "Why do you hold the door open for women? Do you think we're too weak?" My reply was, "I don't hold the door open for women. I hold the door open for people."

We both chuckled. It ended well.

What a disgusting person. Any woman who says that should be removed from society.

Okay, I will cut and paste some relevent things I found in my eBook of Post's Etiquette (yes, I know what this makes me..) However, this is revised for modern times by her cousin's uncle's niece's father-in-law's cousin's wife. -------------------------------- Standard Courtesies simply getting where you’re going every day raises a few questions for the manners-minded, starting with opening and entering doors—an example of how chivalry is no longer something just for men. “After You, Sir” Today it only makes sense that men and women open and hold doors for each other, depending on who arrives there first. The traditional door-opener, however, might want to give the woman a choice—“May I get the door for you?” She could reply either “Thanks!” or “No thanks, I’ve got it” if she gets to the door first. When you and a stranger of either sex approach a door at the same time, it’s polite to open and hold the door—especially if he or she is elderly, carrying a package, or managing small children. Most important, don’t ever let a door close on the person behind you after you’ve just walked through. What about revolving doors? Men traditionally entered a revolving door first if it wasn’t moving, but women went first if it was already in motion. (This old bit of etiquette was based on the notion that women needed help to push the door.) Today, the person in front enters first and pushes. (I like the old way better -TC) When Out and About In an Elevator The rules for entering and exiting an elevator are much the same—whoever’s in front goes first. After pushing the floor button once you’re inside, move as far to the back of the elevator car as possible. If the car’s so crowded you can’t reach the button, ask someone else to push it for you—adding a “please,” of course. If an elevator you want to enter is already jammed with people, don’t squeeze your way inside, even if you’ve waited a long time for it to arrive. Likewise, be patient when you find the door closing as you approach. Although it’s always a nice gesture for a passenger to hold the door for you or push the “door open” button, it’s equally thoughtful of you to allow the passengers already aboard to go ahead and get to their floors without delay. While in transit up or down, don’t stare at others, smack your gum, speak on your cell phone, or sing along with your cassette player. If there’s a mirror or reflective wall in the elevator, resist the kind of grooming best performed in a restroom. If you see someone you know on an elevator, say, “Hello.” Say, “Hot enough for you?” Say, “Have a nice day.” But be careful about going further unless you’re the only two people aboard. A brief chat is fine, but a gabfest complete with laughter may annoy fellow passengers, trapped as they are for the length of the ride. Whispering [ 19 ] isn’t the answer, because in the presence of others (strangers included), it is rude. As for cell phone calls, make them only after you’ve exited the car. The old-style elevator operators nattily attired in a jacket with gold braid may be a vanishing breed, but any operator is always due a “please” and “thank you” when you request a floor and disembark. Riding Escalators Keep to the right on an escalator so that other people can walk past you. If you’re the rider who needs to get past, politely say, “Excuse me”—but only when riders are few and far between. On crowded escalators, the only choice is to be patient and stay where you are. When stepping off an escalator, don’t stop to survey the scene. Move out of the way immediately so that you don’t cause a logjam.

I don't think it would have mattered in this case. She made it clear that I was just one more male chauvanist pig trying to keep women from asserting their God-given right to equality...by holding the door for her.

I think this is just wrong. The woman should never be the last one to get into the cab, taking care of her own umbrella, and closing the door behind her while you are getting nice and warm in the inside seat. This also forces her to open the door again when you both leave.

You Americans are fucked up. In Canada almost everyone holds the door for everyone else, the recipient almost always says "thank you", and women are allowed to go topless. Traditionally a woman arriving at a door would wait for any nearby man to open it for her. The order they entered the building was irrelevant. So of course the man goes first through a door that swings inward, and the woman stops between double doors. There are only two way that protocol can be sensibly be updated:

• Everyone holds the door for everyone
• Nobody holds the door for anyone

I do a lot of door-holding for others, men and women, and I rarely get a nasty look or comment. I see confusion frequently, but this is easily dismissed with a quick, courteous invitation. As far as women goes, maybe it's just me, but I think that when women say 'equally', they don't mean 'the same.' Most women I know appreciate the fact I'm one of the few men they know who shows kindness and courtesy. Most women I know lament the fact these things seem to have disappeared. The biggest confusion I run into occurs when I'm walking with a woman on a sidewalk or crossing the street and I insist on placing my body between theirs and automobile traffic. I often have to explain this to them, but once I do, they find this comforting. The trick is in explaining it in a way that doesn't come across as condescending; and yes, that can be done. It's not about 'equality', really, it's about playing a part. Just like in a play: Romeo and Juliet were equal roles, but they weren't the same characters. I actually think this is something women grasp more intuitively than men. Being treated equally doesn't preclude having a different role. I think women just object to being made to feel as though some defect based on their sex means that you are treating them as though they're just incapable. Really, who likes being treated like that? Some people here have even suggested that when a man holds the door for them, they feel emasculated. If that's the way you feel, then it seems your implicitly telling a woman you're treating her in a less-than-you way just b/c she's a woman. Again, do you want to be treated that way? As far as taxis go, here in NYC, it's really not advisible to enter the street to get into the far door of a taxi. I think T Browne is off about getting in first. Open the door and close it. If you're going to perform courtesies like this, it's just important you do it in such a way that says, 'I'm here to help, and I am basically doing something I'm good at at this moment.' Not, 'let me do this, because you're weak or stupid or don't understand how to deal with the world.' It's also important you do it consistently. After a short while of knowing people--men and women--they come to take it for granted that I'll do these kinds of things. To me, this is the ideal: the behavior becomes transparent. I believe that's the ideal for butlers and servers, as well. You do things that no one even notices but improves their time with you in a positive but subtle way.

The important thing about doing any of these things is never to make a big deal about it, never to do it for any purpose other than that it is part of you and the right thing to do. I do these things as habit and I don't think about it at all (except for these threads), and if someone made a big (negative) deal about it I would just kind of look sadly at them and shake my head. As it is though, I have never had a bad reaction like a woman giving me some feminist lecture or anything. When it is brought up, I just shrug and say it is habit. I don't expect any kind of reward, and I don't resent doing any of these things "for" women/people, I just do them, I guess as part of being male and getting to go through life generally free from the threats that women face. Chivalry or whatever you want to call it, to me, is the deliberate ceding (or use for women's benefit) of the male privilege of being born to be naturally bigger and stronger.

The three courtesies... no wait, let me come in again. Amongst the courtesies I habitually provide are the aforementioned opening/holding doors (but not going way out of my way to do it), opening car doors (for females only, they have nails that can scratch paint you know ), walking traffic-side on the sidewalk except when walking "creepy-guy-side" seems more prudent, standing between creepy guys and people I'm with, excusing my way through crowds to make a path, standing down creepy/insane/threatening people who are worrying my companion(s), talking to management privately to have creepy people removed when prudent, staring down/talking down/defusing general jerks and louts, steering away from confrontations when possible, etc.... all while trying to retain as much face as possible for the defended-against person, because insecure people often take that very personally, I do not need to worry about my own, and putting people down is ungainly. Again, this is not something you do to get some reward, it is part of being a man.

I really don't know how this post got so long, but anyway, there you go. Remember, if you must flex nuts, always do so discreetly.

Well said, j. Thanks for the new quote.

Yes, it is up to the woman to take a short pause to give the gentleman enough time to open up the second door, third door, etc

I agree.

The part above (in bold) about putting yourself between traffic was funny to me, because I sometimes find myself having to explain too. A lot of women don`t even know how to follow simple etiquette, making it awkward at times.