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HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014) - Page 2384

post #35746 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlsquirl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post

 
I'm not personally enamored of newsboy caps. It spoils the overall fit. And I say this as a confirmed hat-wearer.

I like them, but think they look best when worn with some sort of outerwear.  I don't know why, but I think they look out of place without it.

That's what the cool kids call "Amazeballs" @Mr. Six
 

Thanks, man!

My take on the length of jcmeyer's jacket: I can't tell. To my eye, the slimness of the jacket, relatively greater fullness of the trousers around the thighs, and taper below the knee create three different volumes that make it difficult to evaluate the length of the jacket. I'd like to see either more fullness in the jacket (esp through the chest) and less taper below the knee or the trousers slimmed above the knee. Personal preference would be the former. All said with the caveat that photos are lies. And it looks pretty good overall. Enjoy the trip!
post #35747 of 44011

^ Interesting - I thought that, jacket length aside, it was a pretty good fit.

 

Given that opinions are so divided, perhaps the best thing for @jcmeyer to do is - nothing. And if the nagging feeling that it's too long never goes away, get it shortened down the track sometime.

post #35748 of 44011

Let's try something for beautiful weather :

 

 

 

post #35749 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bienluienapris View Post
 

Let's try something for beautiful weather :

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

This is awesome! Deets on the shoes?

post #35750 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxsackie View Post

^ Interesting - I thought that, jacket length aside, it was a pretty good fit.

Given that opinions are so divided, perhaps the best thing for @jcmeyer
 to do is - nothing. And if the nagging feeling that it's too long never goes away, get it shortened down the track sometime.

More than anything else right now, this. But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaone View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
1) Why do you say JC's shape is "seriously wonky"? He's just short. But I don't think his proportions are significantly outside of the norm. Therefore, the bisecting rule should work just fine for him. In fact, the bisecting rule exists specifically to avoid the pitfalls of other "rules" for jacket length which can be thrown off by wonky proportions. For instance, abnormally long or short arms will obviously mean the thumb rule won't work. But it's never wrong for a jacket to cut the body in half. This is what's ideal 99.99% of the time. The thumb rule is just a quick and dirty method of approximating this for most people.

2) Again, JC's proportions (i.e. relative length of arms, legs, torso, etc.) seem fairly normal. No reason the thumb rule wouldn't work for him. I'll have to take you at your word that it won't work for you, but as I've acknowledged, it's not infallible.

3) I suppose that the "overall look" is somewhat subjective, and pics can be misleading. But these pics appear to be from a far enough distance and taken from an appropriate height that they should provide a fairly accurate representation of reality. To be clear, I'm not saying JC's jacket is egregiously long and that it shouldn't be worn. But since he explicitly asked for feedback on the length, I stand by my thoughts that ideally, it could be shorter by as much as 1.5"--or perhaps more like only .75" to play it safe. But if he's happy with it as is, he should wear it without hesitation. It looks like a lovely and excellent fitting suit in all other regards.

But there's a reason he asked about the length... he must have a sneaking suspicion himself that it's a tad too long...

Exactly. And it's why I brought this up in GNAT as well. It feels too long, and ElioDA remarked that if that's the case I won't want to wear it and other opinions won't matter. As many have noticed or commented before, a lot of my jackets are too short or too tight; pants often too low rise, too tapered below the knee. Some of this is the clothes, and some of it is just my shape (or greatly exacerbated by my shape), which while I don't love thinking of as "wonky," that's not an unfounded description. When your legs start lower in relation to your torso and your thighs and backside are, ehem, stocky (I squat hella, bros) it throws the various rules of thumb into a bit of a tizzy - this is what Eric was getting at below and he's right on the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgereghty View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Only because I like to argue:

1) the bisecting rule will naturally, if rigidly adhered to, create oddities in a look on someone who has a seriously wonky shape, as JC admits to having. In this case, i think he'd (lord knows I would) be happier being wrong than adhering to this rule.
2) thumb rule is another terrible one in this case, I'd argue. If applied to myself, I'd probably have at least 25% of my ass popping out from under my jacket when standing at ease, and probably 50ish% when in movement. Complete non-starter in my case, and I think JC would have a similar result if he took the 1.5" approach.
3) the look test in my view is your best argument, which is a rather backhanded compliment.

At the end of the day, I don't think it's going out on a limb to say the first two points, while lovely in theory, don't jive at all when put to practice, at least in this case.

Here is my rationale for keeping status quo:

I do like the way it looks. So, my only argument is the opposite of the best argument, yet neither is anything beyond subjective.

It's certainly fine to disagree, but let's not pretend like one side of this debate has a legitimate leg to stand on beyond opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Six View Post


My take on the length of jcmeyer's jacket: I can't tell. To my eye, the slimness of the jacket, relatively greater fullness of the trousers around the thighs, and taper below the knee create three different volumes that make it difficult to evaluate the length of the jacket. I'd like to see either more fullness in the jacket (esp through the chest) and less taper below the knee or the trousers slimmed above the knee. Personal preference would be the former. All said with the caveat that photos are lies. And it looks pretty good overall. Enjoy the trip!

I won't take up more of the thread's time with my particular fit issues, but I've noticed all the same things and am still working on them - sometimes overshooting, sometimes brake-checking right at the moment of truth. But hey, it's really only been ~15 months since I seriously started making an effort and I feel like I'm inching closer. Glad that with a few exceptions people are mostly on board with the suit smile.gif

So thank you for the feedback and the discussion - the "argument" you guys had is basically my inner monologue about it but like Cox said, right now I'm going to sit on it and then maybe take off ~0.75" to 1" - the placement of the pockets precludes going much further without moving them up, and it's just a SuSu suit afterall. At a certain point it won't be worth throwing more money at it.

Also thanks for the well-wished on my trip! I'm very excited about it. cheers.gif
post #35751 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmeyer View Post

More than anything else right now, this. But...
Exactly. And it's why I brought this up in GNAT as well. It feels too long, and ElioDA remarked that if that's the case I won't want to wear it and other opinions won't matter. As many have noticed or commented before, a lot of my jackets are too short or too tight; pants often too low rise, too tapered below the knee. Some of this is the clothes, and some of it is just my shape (or greatly exacerbated by my shape), which while I don't love thinking of as "wonky," that's not an unfounded description. When your legs start lower in relation to your torso and your thighs and backside are, ehem, stocky (I squat hella, bros) it throws the various rules of thumb into a bit of a tizzy - this is what Eric was getting at below and he's right on the money.

I won't take up more of the thread's time with my particular fit issues, but I've noticed all the same things and am still working on them - sometimes overshooting, sometimes brake-checking right at the moment of truth. But hey, it's really only been ~15 months since I seriously started making an effort and I feel like I'm inching closer. Glad that with a few exceptions people are mostly on board with the suit smile.gif

So thank you for the feedback and the discussion - the "argument" you guys had is basically my inner monologue about it but like Cox said, right now I'm going to sit on it and then maybe take off ~0.75" to 1" - the placement of the pockets precludes going much further without moving them up, and it's just a SuSu suit afterall. At a certain point it won't be worth throwing more money at it.

Also thanks for the well-wished on my trip! I'm very excited about it. cheers.gif

I was just about to touch upon the issue you mention yourself here. I do believe that the jacket looks slightly long, even if it's dangerous to be too sure based on a few pictures. But changing the length of a jacket is always tricky. If you choose the easiest option to shorten it by the hem you risk making the placement of the pockets look off. If you do it by the shoulders the breast pocket and lapels will look weird very quickly. Therefore I think you're doing the right thing. Sit on it for a while. It is certainly not a major issue and it generally looks good on you. If you realise after some time that you actually avoid wearing it because of the length, then revisit the idea of shortening it.
post #35752 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post
 

 

This is awesome! Deets on the shoes?


Thanks you, vintage crockett and jones named "Brighton".

post #35753 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaone View Post

2) The "thumb" rule. This is only a rule of thumb (no pun intended), of course. But it works 95% of the time, and I see no reason why it shouldn't work for you. The rule states that the jacket should align with the first knuckle of the thumb (going upward from the nail). By this rule, your jacket should be about 1.5" shorter. This is rather significant, especially for someone of short stature.
 

 

From my experience, this rule is more often wrong than you think. I also have the problem of a relatively long torso. From observing hundreds of example images on the net I found that (relative) arm length corresponds with leg length. There are many male models that have very long arms and legs, to the extent that their thumbs are much lower than their crotch. For them the rule would produce very long jackets, while their body type is the only one that can make shorter jackets somewhat acceptable. For people with shorts arms and legs (like me), the rule produces a jacket length that is too short (by more than an inch in my case), giving the impression you are wearing your pants streetstyle-low-bottom.

 

The best rule in my opinion is still "cover your ass" or overall impression. In my case, there is only about half an inch tolerance up and down from the optimal length. You cannot assess the correct length without comparing directly to the alternatives. In the case of very short arms and legs (more extreme than me or jcmeyer)  I would think that there might be no really optimal solution.

 

In case of jcmeyer, I think that the jacket length is the largest that is still within the acceptable range. I estimate that the optimum would be half an inch shorter. I would not shorten the jacket for that amount.

 

Just want to add another aspect. If your torso is not only long but also not too slim, a jacket that is on the shorter range looks extremely boxy and top heavy. In jcmeyers case the overall shape of the jacket is relatively slim, which makes it perfecly acceptable or even slimming if it is slightly longer.

post #35754 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by zr3rs View Post

From my experience, this rule is more often wrong than you think. I also have the problem of a relatively long torso. From observing hundreds of example images on the net I found that (relative) arm length corresponds with leg length. There are many male models that have very long arms and legs, to the extent that their thumbs are much lower than their crotch. For them the rule would produce very long jackets, while their body type is the only one that can make shorter jackets somewhat acceptable. For people with shorts arms and legs (like me), the rule produces a jacket length that is too short (by more than an inch in my case), giving the impression you are wearing your pants streetstyle-low-bottom.

The best rule in my opinion is still "cover your ass" or overall impression. In my case, there is only about half an inch tolerance up and down from the optimal length. You cannot assess the correct length without comparing directly to the alternatives. In the case of very short arms and legs (more extreme than me or jcmeyer)  I would think that there might be no really optimal solution.

In case of jcmeyer, I think that the jacket length is the largest that is still within the acceptable range. I estimate that the optimum would be half an inch shorter. I would not shorten the jacket for that amount.

Just want to add another aspect. If your torso is not only long but also not too slim, a jacket that is on the shorter range looks extremely boxy and top heavy. In jcmeyers case the overall shape of the jacket is relatively slim, which makes it perfecly acceptable or even slimming if it is slightly longer.

Fair points. One could argue, however, that for a person with short limbs, it's best to err on the side of a shorter jacket within the acceptable range vs. a longer one, in an effort to avoid making the legs appear even shorter. And I'm not sure I follow your logic that tall, slender models with long arms and long legs are the only body type on which "shorter jackets are somewhat acceptable." Quite the contrary: they can get away with longer jackets due to their longer legs. Shorter jackets are best on dudes with shorter legs. This all goes back to the generally accepted principle that a classically tailored jacket's length should hit midway between the floor and the top of the jacket, or bisect the body. At any rate, I think we can all agree that taller guys have more of a margin of error for jacket length, while it's much more crucial for those of shorter stature to get the length right.

Your last statement touches on the overall congruency of a fit in terms of specific aspects being slim vs. full, "modern" vs. "traditional", etc. This is oversimplifying things a bit, but it's also what Mr. Six was getting at when he mentioned JC's jacket being slim, while the pants are rather full in the thigh, but then slim again below the knee. This is being nitpicky, to be sure, but the overall gist of the argument is valid. I disagree with your statement that a "slim" jacket calls for longer length; this goes against the congruency aspect. Just like full cut trousers should have a bit of a break, while slim trousers can look good with no break at all--a slim jacket could/should similarly be a bit shorter, while a full cut, drape-y jacket probably needs to be a bit longer to look right.

All that said, I realize that this is getting down to the nitty gritty and is rather theoretical, but it can nonetheless be useful to have such discussions.
post #35755 of 44011

Some seriously great fits over the past few pages - keep it steadily coming, boys :fistbump:

 

Some fits from the past couple days...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #35756 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaone View Post


Fair points. One could argue, however, that for a person with short limbs, it's best to err on the side of a shorter jacket within the acceptable range vs. a longer one, in an effort to avoid making the legs appear even shorter

Well, I can only say that shorter jackets look absolutely disastrous with me. I can provide images when I get home. It is simply because the crotch gets lower than the bottom of the jacket. Quickly.
 

Quote:

... tall and slender models...

 

 

I was not arguing for slender, but long limbs/short torso.

 

Quote:

... about congruency ...

 

 

Agree.

 

Quote:

All that said, I realize that this is getting down to the nitty gritty and is rather theoretical, but it can nonetheless be useful to have such discussions.

 

As a scientist, if you want to argue theoretically, you need to be much more precise and incorporate several different variables in your model to be ecologically valid.:D That would be for another thread, though. As a scientist, I prefer to focus the discussions on concrete examples.;)

post #35757 of 44011
@bien love the red white and blue. Everything pops well. May I ask if you are attending a special event? Curious about what inspired the fit besides the weather.
Edited by pravda - 4/7/16 at 2:26am
post #35758 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by pravda View Post

@ben love the red white and blue. Everything pops well. May I ask if you are attending a special event? Curious about what inspired the fit besides the weather.

Thanks you very much. In fact, I was looking for a red jacket since a while, but not a too pricy one, since it's not something easy to wear and that you can wear often. Last week, I saw this jacket in Napoli for around 100 EUR so I took it. In "La Grande bellezza" Jeb Gambardella wear this kind of jacket, that's what inspire me a bit. No particular event, just searching new think to wear for this summer in French Riviera and Italy. Probably often without a tie.

post #35759 of 44011
Last days of warmth and dying light



post #35760 of 44011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxsackie View Post
 

#49.

 

 

 

 

 

Brixton - Pal Zileri Sartoriale - Maker's Shirt - Robert Fraser - Pal Zileri - Bresciani - C&J

 

I never normally include a robopose; this time, just for kicks, I have.

 

I am strongly in the paperboy cap camp. I love them and I think they can look great with a sc like here, or even with a suit if it's in a heavier fabric like tweed or flannel. It also has that old school Irish gangster vibe, which tells you that you might look dapper, but you're not above punching somebody in the face if they deserve it. A good look. 

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