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HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014) - Page 1216

post #18226 of 43865
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post


Well, I'll just reply this one time than go back to my little cave. The Foo one shoe thing, was never treated as a "rule". If anything, he got more shit for that than anything anyone else on this forum has ever gotten. The one shoe is actually more of an example of what you are advancing, Foo knows that a one shoe is not going to be appropriate for every outfit, yet he didn't care and went with it. Nothing wrong with that. The white shirt thing, that is actually very interesting. There is a historical context for white shirts (formalwear/"white collar" work etc). Within that context, a solid white shirt in a silky cotton does not make sense with a tweed jacket (country wear). Now can you wear a textured white shirt, or an oxford cloth with a sportcoat? Sure. Actually, you can wear whatever shirt you want but their point was, there is a logical reason why it was not done and once you knew that reason, you can find ways of doing it where it would work. Same thing with patch pockets. Once they became de riguer, they were showing up on DB suits, worsted suits etc. Well, patch pockets have historically been on the casual spectrum. When you take a worsted two piece suit and put patch pockets on it, you are going against the original intent of both the suit and the patch pockets. Is that wrong? Yes, to me it is.

At the end of the day, the suit/sportcoat have been unchanged for 50+ years. We can edit it to fit our times but there is a base, a foundation that needs to be understood. The Classic menswear that we discuss is not an "idea", its something that has existed for many decades. As you mention, we have standards and they have been edited over the years, but editing is different than saying something doesn't exist.

Ahhhh, the good old days...(barf...)

 

I mean, are you really tone deaf to the social implications of: "At the end of the day, the suit/sportcoat have been unchanged for 50+ years. We can edit it to fit our times but there is a base, a foundation that needs to be understood."????

post #18227 of 43865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlsquirl View Post


It's just an easy way to thumb and say something like "nice tie" without having to post. Of course you can still do both, but now you have that option.


How do I opt out of the "Reputation" option and just give a "thumb"?

post #18228 of 43865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roycru View Post


How do I opt out of the "Reputation" option and just give a "thumb"?

It was always "reputation", but I know what you mean and I don't think there's an option.
post #18229 of 43865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roycru View Post


How do I opt out of the "Reputation" option and just give a "thumb"?
You don't. Just ignore the comment bit and click add reputation, that will give the poster a thumb. Easy peasy.
post #18230 of 43865
I couldn't care any less about NickP's shoes (the sheen) when the man always posts with a great smile on his face and a nice combo.
post #18231 of 43865

Hi guys, in the awfuc today

post #18232 of 43865
I've thouroughly enjoyed the discussion going on in this thread. Warning: Ramble (Click to show)
I'd just like to add a few words:

My interest in CM started with an interest in vintage menswear. I bought every book I could on the history of the suit, tie and shirt (for some reason I've never been into shoes as much, I only own Lazlo Vass' book on the subject). The history of the suit we know today is a short one, in fact too short to establish a set of unbending rules. Just look at the changes the suit has gone through since the late 1800's, and look at all the local deviations throughout the world.

throughout the history of the suit there have been some standards that have not changed, but they merely have to do with such basics as a suit must have a basic outline and uniformity. Everything, from lapels to pockets, to the shape of the suit, has been in a constant state of change. A lot of influences have come from around the world, in how a suit is worn and what it's worn with. Influences have come from sport, military, the old frock coat, workwear et c.

Now, we have established a certain taste, in which cuts we appreciate, what fabrics we think work best together et c. But don't mistake this for anything but taste, and don't think this is something lasting. People dressed in SF canon, set by a bunch of posters here, would probably look like historical reenactment actors/vintage enthusiasts if they magically appeared 50 years into the future (or the equivalent of "hipsters" if they appeared 50 years ago).

E.G. A light blue shirt would have signaled something quite else only a few decades ago. Who knows, in another couple of decades, a navy worsted suit might replace the dinner suit and white tie rig (which is already considered archaic by most people) as the most formal set of clothes for a man.

Now, I've left the vintage thing mostly behind me, but I'll admit that my love for CM is, at least to some extent, grounded in pure nostalgia. I will continue to pick and choose influences from the history of CM, and still be open to some of the newer trends, because some of them will probably help in shaping what CM is in the future.

Oh, and also, DB's with patch pockets isn't a new thing.

Edited by EFV - 4/9/15 at 1:36am
post #18233 of 43865

I don't get involved in many discussions here anymore but the last few pages have been interesting reading.

 

I fully agree that mirror shine is an option (and also, if you can do it right!) but only in the right context. What I like about Nick's posts is that he always looks "cool" - relaxed, easy going, and friendly with his smile (good looks help too ;)). It does look like he just "threw it on". However when you look closely at what he is wearing, the quality is superb, the blend of colours and fabrics fantastic. He's made suits / shirts / ties look as relaxed and easy to wear as t shirt and jeans.

 

Then, when you look at someone like @chocsosa, it's like BAM! That is one sharp suit, clean, pressed, shoes buffed up "to the nines". And that shows the diametrically opposed approaches to menswear, and also shows that each is viable in it's own right, once it is coherent.

 

I didn't notice Nick's shoes until after the argument had started - they looked fine to me, in the context of the relaxed, easy look he had (and always has). However if Choc or one of the other more "formal" posters had posted pics with slightly less than shiny shoes, I would have noticed, and they would've looked wrong.

 

I'm just happy to see nice shoes - regardless of sheen. Here in Ireland there is a tragic level of shoe wearing amongst most men - awful, cheap shoes (look up a shop called "Office" for examples), with point-up toes, scuffed (yes), and normally a horrible tan or dull black. Irish men just don't get shoes compared to our European or international counter parts.

 

Anyway, it's interesting what Nick is saying about getting young people into tailored clothes - for many I believe cost is the first barrier. There's plenty of examples of people for them to emulate - film stars, sports stars (like Beckham or even Bradley Wiggins in the UK - not a perfect example, but still), and some rock stars (old mods like Paul Weller) - but if they can't afford it, they're likely not to do it. Unfortunately what they CAN afford is the Burton / Topman / River Island style of suits, of the peg, awful fits and awful quality. Savile Row seems to be a long way off for them.

 

I'd love Nick's idea of a cool, relaxed, "young" approach to tailoring to take off and become a reality, but until the average 17 - 25 year old can afford a €500 - €1000 budget per fit, it may be a while before that happens.

post #18234 of 43865

Thanks for two interesting posts on the subject, @EFV and @eviltimeban !

post #18235 of 43865

Very, very many different words and letters ... A lot...:embar:

post #18236 of 43865

 

 

 

 

briefcase/bag – Andrey Glushenko
headwear – Stetson
scarf – Calabrese
gloves – Barbour 
tie – Calabrese
pocket squares – Roda
belt – Etro
cufflinks – Dunhill
bracelet – Viola Milano
overcoat – Brooks Brothers
cardigan – Cruciani
shoes – Alden
socks – Pantherella
shirt – Bespoke
jeans – Bespoke
perfume – Clive Christian “X”

post #18237 of 43865
Just read the last few pages (it's easier just to look st pics and thumb).

Maybe the good ole teachers of the past have exhausted everything that needs to be said about shirts, coats, pants, shoes, ties and belts in their current "ruleset".


Keep posting fits my good people and for those that love the good ole days please use the search function.

biggrin.gif
post #18238 of 43865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Algernon Crisp View Post

With regard to rules and classical standards of dress, there is I think a misconception, one that particularly appeals to the foolish in this egotistical and solipsistic age.

Rules (or guidelines or standards) are not in general something created a priori, or commandments issued ex cathedra by some imperious authority. They are better thought of as the by-product of successful solutions, or the accumulated wisdom of many persons and the result of many trials.

A good parallel would be grammar. Ignorant persons imagine standard English and rules of grammar are restricting. In fact the opposite is true, they are liberating, empowering and allow for a much greater range of expression, and much greater subtlety therein.

Experimentation and evolution are good things, but they must be tempered with an appreciation of one's own limitations. Compare the relative peace of the evolution of the British political system with the bloodshed and horror that accompanied more revolutionary approaches (for example in France).

Rules, given their proper consideration (that is treated neither with childish disdain nor unthinking reverence), are tremendously beneficial.

Edmund is that you?

On a serious note - Vox or Manton?
post #18239 of 43865

^That's the first time I've heard clothing be compared to prose or the French Revolution. 

post #18240 of 43865
Comparison to grammar and big societal changes is interesting. There is one flaw in that kind of reasoning though.

Grammar is essential to lawmakers, governments et c, to create an un-biased exact mass of texts upon which a society shall be governed.

Clothes, even CM, don't hold such weight.

I'll also leave this Boyer quote here:
Quote:
“I know there are people out there who spend countless hours discussing the correct depth of trouser cuffs and length of coats. But the reality is that dressing well is like writing well: you learn the rules that are fashionable at the time, then you develop your own style by breaking them in order to better accommodate your unique life.
Those who slavishly follow the rules of dress are really just followers of fashion: the fashion of a particular time, past or present.”
Bruce Boyer (via Ivy Style)
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