Menswear on Women

In the interest of this threads discussion, I've asked claghorn to nuke my posts about the hair. (Had no idea this was such a touchy subject)

I would like to add though that I have made some substantive contributions to this thread. Namely, the posts about the "haberdashery" vs "ivy" ethos.

There were a couple of interesting takeaways from all that crap, some directly from jrd while others are in response.

* We have quite a few gay members, and whenever the post pictures of men, they keep their comments to their outfits and post regardless of their attractiveness. Several folks up thread commented on both. So that's interesting.

* The women posted so far have all been very attractive women. I'm not sure this is a consequence of any sexism on our parts so much as it is the images out there available to us.

* The most interesting so far was the proclivity to wear louder patterns. Kylerton's friend's don't seem to be interested in this. Kylerton, as she admitted (and it is something to be guilty of ) is on a Thom Browne kick. But her general pattern use and color schemes is fairly tame. Nothing more than something southernstyles would wear, and certainly less robust than AAS or TTO. Her friends are even more toned down. I liked this outfit in particular, though the collar could of course be better. And I think I'm going to stop bringing up the lack of dimples. After that last sentence.



Master-Classter said:

Do menswear and womenswear have different goals? (function versus fantasy/fashion)
Should women take traditional men's silhouettes or adapt for their body types? (wearing actual menswear versus being inspired by)
etc...

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This is a key element, IMO. Kylerton's company seems to be offering menswear adapted for women's bodies, something quite different than the women's suits at Ann Taylor or Banana Republic which reinterpret the language of menswear through a womenswear filter. The former is much more interesting.

IMHO, I think that women tend to dress using more colors, patterns and flash-y items than us. Clearly, people will be more forgiving of a women peacocking, than a men. I guess that's a cultural thing. That's why I think pictures of Sarah Ann Murray and Esther Quek work, even if they appear to be the equivalent of Ieluzzi. Add the fact that they actually WORK in the fashion industry, they got to step up their game to be on top.

Never thought this thread would get people so fired up!

Minus the overcoat, I think this is an excellent example of menswear on women (as opposed to womenswear inspired by menswear).

womens clothing to me is about fantasy and role play, and IMO of course over the years they've pulled in menswear 'elements' but have usually twisted them so far that they're just fashion fun. I see women trying to wear pant suits and their sleeves hang over their hands, they have soft collars, and pull their collars over the jackets like 1970's greasy chain wearing balding dudes, etc.

Example of dos and don't. It's one thing to have a wider trouser leg to accommodate hips. It's like a guy adjusting shoulder pads for his build. A wide or even slightly flaired leg isn't something you're really find on a mens suit, but to me that sort of change makes sense because it's a part of making it function for the wearer. Like changing the rise, or button placements, etc. But when you start rolling up the sleeves, or making super cropped jackets, etc, then it moves into fashion. Now IMO there's nothing wrong with that, but call it what it is. I guess plenty of guys walk into Thomas Pink and peacock it up with their shirts, ties, and PS's and socks etc, so how is it different when women do it, but I still feel unsure about this one, at least in the context of trying to do actual menswear.


what I'd really like to see is good honest attempts by women to wear fairly traditional menswear. Meaning fabrics, somewhat traditional cuts, etc.
edit - like the post above, exactly. Meaning it's really pretty much menswear, with some adjustments for body type etc and some preferences, but it's not costumy IMO.

Even the overcoat fits within the paradigm, albeit on the P. Cock McSteezerson end of the spectrum.

Quote:

Master-Classter said:

what I'd really like to see is good honest attempts by women to wear fairly traditional menswear. Meaning fabrics, somewhat traditional cuts, etc.

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I think that's what Kylerton is trying to go for with her haberdashery.

More Quek:



I feel like @southernstyle would wear this. She's probably not wearing socks, either.



That square makes me sad. But I get that she's in the fashion industry.



A very well cut suit,

I am quiet surprised that no one has posted the good-old days designer women's daywear. They really are the prima of women's tailoring.

If people are keen on classic women's tailoring, I do have a small collection on my tumblr.

All good pictures and outfits, displaying both menswear on women and womenswear inspired by menswear. Not sure where that top outfit fits in though.



Claghorn said:

All good pictures and outfits, displaying both menswear on women and womenswear inspired by menswear. Not sure where that top outfit fits in though.

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Sorry I added the firsr pic just for cuteness.

In my opinion, women in menswear is not right (also the vice versa)

Things such my last picture illustrate the best of both words, combinded the precision of tailoring and the femine cut of women's wear.

Those outfits from the eidtors of the Rake are just tacky and lacks refinement.

I think women in conservative business dress would be very odd. conservative business dress is, after all, conservative business dress and is built around the premise of outfits most appropriate for business. That women dressing like Manton don't have a place in that ideal is less a fault of conservative business dress than it is of the standard business environment. I think this is perhaps why women in menswear is going to begin at "Styleforum standard" (at least two patterns, pocket square) and move up from there in terms of flamboyance. It needs to be clear that the woman is dressing as such as a preference rather than for business, otherwise, it adds discordance at a new level.

add911_11 said:

I am quiet surprised that no one has posted the good-old days designer women's daywear. They really are the prima of women's tailoring.

If people are keen on classic women's tailoring, I do have a small collection on my tumblr.

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Interesting topic but most pics in here scream peacock and are worn just to be a "wow" factor due to the overwhelming amount of accessories and emphasis on the clothing rather than person. Most just look tryhard and not natural. Not a big fan on the amount of emphasis on the shoulder as a result of wide lapel + heavy padding. To me, it just doesn't look right because strong shoulders are a very masculine feature. These two are the only ones which I like due to the simplicity, which prioritizes the wearer's silhouette and doesn't make it seem that the clothes are wearing the person. It's more menswear-inspired clothing rather than women's take on menswear.

tldr: peacocks errwhere



conradwu said:

Interesting topic but most pics in here scream peacock and are worn just to be a "wow" factor due to the overwhelming amount of accessories and emphasis on the clothing rather than person. Most just look tryhard and not natural. Not a big fan on the amount of emphasis on the shoulder as a result of wide lapel + heavy padding. To me, it just doesn't look right because strong shoulders are a very masculine feature. These two are the only ones which I like due to the simplicity, which prioritizes the wearer's silhouette and doesn't make it seem that the clothes are wearing the person. It's more menswear-inspired clothing rather than women's take on menswear.

tldr: peacocks errwhere

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No love on the 1st generation designer? e.g. Christian Dior

I am not sure an adequate padding on women's garment should be considered 'manly'

In fact I think most of the time a shoulder pad will really helps to prefect the look.

While I agree very strong shoulder is masculine, in most cases women looks better in padded coat.