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post #16 of 25
11/27/07 at 10:55pm
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Originally Posted by jaydc7 View Post
I could be wrong but I haven't seen guarantees of Olympic Lift increases on their main page.
It's not, and I had the quote a bit off. Below is the actual quote, and it's even worse
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Originally Posted by Greg Glassman
"If you come to us with a four-minute mile, six months into it you are going to be 30 seconds slower but a whole hell of a lot fitter. Similarly, if you come to us with a 900-pound squat, in six months it's going to be 750 pounds, but you, too, will be much fitter. A four-minute mile and a 900-pound squat are both clear and compelling evidence of a lack of balance in your program. This doesn't reflect the limitations of our program but the inherent nature of flesh and blood. But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200-pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1435408

Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04
And you pulled those random ass statements from where? Links please
Check the website.

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Originally Posted by adversity04
3) Proves you have no idea what you're talking about concerning Crossfit
Off the top of my head, the Kipling pullups, and a video clip they pushed on the website sometimes last Spring. It has a guy doing a 2 exercise WOD for time, the ROM on his handstand pushups were so bad it got mocked by 1 out every 3 comments yet everyone looked away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04
5) Marketing where? I've never seen anything for crossfit aside from it being discussed on the Krav Maga forums.
The CrossFit tours/ certification seminar. Always SOLD OUT!, of course.
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post #17 of 25
11/27/07 at 11:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
It's not, and I had the quote a bit off. Below is the actual quote, and it's even worse

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1435408

That only says how rare it is to see someone pull 750lbs, but 500lbs is only double bodyweight for someone who is 250. They consider a 2x bodyweight pull necessary to be balanced.
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Check the website.
I'm on there quite often and I haven't seen any of that. Again links and the quotes.
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Off the top of my head, the Kipling pullups, and a video clip they pushed on the website sometimes last Spring. It has a guy doing a 2 exercise WOD for time, the ROM on his handstand pushups were so bad it got mocked by 1 out every 3 comments yet everyone looked away.
Why kipping pullups are used is in the FAQ, go read it. Have you done any of the workouts? They're a kick in the ass. Also, not everyone can do a full ROM HSPU, you scale as necessary. You'll eventually get to the full ROM.
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The CrossFit tours/ certification seminar. Always SOLD OUT!, of course.
It's so people can learn the correct form from the instructors and a lot of the ideology behind program.

You obviously have not tried the program so you can't comment on its effectiveness. Reading what someone else wrote does not count as doing it.
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post #18 of 25
11/28/07 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04 View Post
That only says how rare it is to see someone pull 750lbs, but 500lbs is only double bodyweight for someone who is 250. They consider a 2x bodyweight pull necessary to be balanced.
And your point? You're not even trying. And even if you do, I don't see how you can perceive Glassman's quoted statements as complete nonsense.

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Why kipping pullups are used is in the FAQ, go read it. Have you done any of the workouts? They're a kick in the ass. Also, not everyone can do a full ROM HSPU, you scale as necessary. You'll eventually get to the full ROM.
Kipling utilizes muscle groups vital to other activities... yah, then you see 3/4 of the commenters freely switch from strict PUs to Kipling near the end of their WODs. Who's to stop them?

As for the clip, it was on the damn front page. They regard his total time as some kind of records, apparently.

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You obviously have not tried the program so you can't comment on its effectiveness. Reading what someone else wrote does not count as doing it.

Are you saying 50% of what I wrote in this subforum is unsubstantiated crap? Dude, I have done most of the WODs, as rec'x, at least once. Some are great, like the Tabata Everything, 5K run, short run then lift intervals etc. and go into my routine in a form or another. For some, like the pullups followed by BW bench, x 5 or 7 times, I just laughed and walk away.

Point is, XF is not the end-all-be-all program people make it out to be. It doesn't make you the strongest, or fastest, or biggest, or 'fittest' kid in the block. It makes you so-so in all those categories.

Read this, btw: http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthr.../19511/fpart/1
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post #19 of 25
11/28/07 at 2:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04 View Post
Bill Belichick looks like shit too but that doesn't mean the Patriots suck. It's not about feeling tough, but then again I guess that's what preacher curls in front of the mirror are for, right?


Belichik coaches athletes in a professional venue. Glassman does not. Instead he advocates a general fitness approach that is applicable to everyone: "Our program delivers a fitness that is, by design, broad, general, and inclusive.".

I have to think that would include himself, but it seems he'd be barely able to complete a single Cynthia.

I used the word "tough" as it seems appropriate to a mindset that brags about puking and sees rhabdomyolysis as a right of passage.

"But CrossFitters revel in the challenge. A common axiom among practitioners is "I met Pukey," meaning they worked out so hard they vomited. Some even own T-shirts emblazoned with a clown, Pukey. CrossFit's other mascot is Uncle Rhabdo, another clown, whose kidneys have spilled onto the floor presumably due to rhabdomyolysis."

"That night he went to the emergency room, where doctors told him he had rhabdomyolysis, which is caused when muscle fiber breaks down and is released into the bloodstream, poisoning the kidneys. He spent six days in intensive care. Yet six months later Mr. Anderson, a former Army Ranger, was back in the gym, performing the very exercises that nearly killed him. "I see pushing my body to the point where the muscles destroy themselves as a huge benefit of CrossFit," he said."

And of course, the inspiring words of "coach" himself:

"But for Mr. Glassman, dismissals of his extreme workouts merely help him weed out people he considers weak-willed. "If you find the notion of falling off the rings and breaking your neck so foreign to you, then we don't want you in our ranks," he said."


lefty
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post #20 of 25
11/28/07 at 2:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
And your point? You're not even trying. And even if you do, I don't see how you can perceive Glassman's quoted statements as complete nonsense.
I don't have to try, you can show me that no one has increased their deadlift that amount.
Quote:
Kipling utilizes muscle groups vital to other activities... yah, then you see 3/4 of the commenters freely switch from strict PUs to Kipling near the end of their WODs. Who's to stop them?
All pullups unless otherwise stated are meant to be kipped
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As for the clip, it was on the damn front page. They regard his total time as some kind of records, apparently.
At this point I can't make further comment unless I saw the clip.
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Are you saying 50% of what I wrote in this subforum is unsubstantiated crap? Dude, I have done most of the WODs, as rec'x, at least once. Some are great, like the Tabata Everything, 5K run, short run then lift intervals etc. and go into my routine in a form or another. For some, like the pullups followed by BW bench, x 5 or 7 times, I just laughed and walk away.
Did you follow the WoD, scaled as necessary, for a few months? If not it's not a fair viewing of the program since, as they described in the link you included later, it's cyclic.
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Point is, XF is not the end-all-be-all program people make it out to be. It doesn't make you the strongest, or fastest, or biggest, or 'fittest' kid in the block. It makes you so-so in all those categories.
That's why it's a program for general fitness. If you want to be the strongest, fastest or biggest you'll have to specialize and lose your ability in some other domain. The definition of 'fit' can be argued day and night so let's not get into that.
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Read this, btw: http://www.specialtactics.com/ubbthr.../19511/fpart/1
It's a pretty old thread, back when less people knew about the system. It started out hostile and when Robb started posting people began to understand what was going on and actually accepted that the program might work. Coach reacted in a manner that I think most people would if they were being attacked over their own material. Robb's post on page 2 was actually very informative. Edit: That link was from a RKC kettlebell-orientated forum. Of course people were going to be skeptic of some other program.
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post #21 of 25
11/28/07 at 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post
Belichik coaches athletes in a professional venue. Glassman does not. Instead he advocates a general fitness approach that is applicable to everyone: "Our program delivers a fitness that is, by design, broad, general, and inclusive.".

I have to think that would include himself, but it seems he'd be barely able to complete a single Cynthia.
And all nutritionists are thin, coaches able to perform the skills their athletes can, etc etc. It doesn't mean that you are unable to teach principles.

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I used the word "tough" as it seems appropriate to a mindset that brags about puking and sees rhabdomyolysis as a right of passage.
They actually warn against rhabdo and encourage you to start out slow and work your way into things. One persons perspective is not representative of the whole community.

As for the puking, I always knew I did a good workout during track when I threw up. I found this in this thread (no idea if it's for sure accurate) http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=516180 :
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The sensation of nausea and subsequent retching/vomiting is controlled by the vomiting centers in the reticular formations of the medulla (in your brainstem). It receives signals from four sources:
1. the chemoreceptor trigger zone (see below)
2. visceral nerves from the GI tract (ate something bad, stomach flu, food poisoning, etc)
3. visceral nerves from outside the GI tract (e.g. gall bladder stone causing you to vomit, heart attack causing intense nausea, etc)
4. nerves from the extramedullary centers in the brain (e.g. bad odors, fear, motion sickness, brain injury)

What I want to focus on is #1, the chemoreceptor trigger zone. This "zone" is located in your brainstem and gets activated whenever an abnormal systemic, whole-body event is happening, like hypoxia, diabetic ketoacidosis, uremia, vomit-inducing drugs, AND IN THIS CASE, lactic acidosis.

The decrease in pH caused by lactic acid buildup gets sensed by your chemoreceptor trigger zone, which tells the vomiting center in your reticular formation that should be nauseous and possibly vomit.
So basically it happens when you're pushing lactate threshold which makes sense.
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post #22 of 25
11/28/07 at 3:10am
^ Puking is not always a good thing, and never the best thing to happen during training, no matter the goal. You don't see professional athletes puke often during games or practice, do you?

As for your previous point, I guess our fitness goals are a bit different. I play tons of sports(on college campus/locally), and being competitive in nature, I'm now tired of being so-so at so many different things. And trying different programs is a lot of fun.

lefty raised a good point, btw. Sound theories aside, I wouldn't really want to take training advices from somebody who looks like this (guy on the right)
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post #23 of 25
11/28/07 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04 View Post
And all nutritionists are thin, coaches able to perform the skills their athletes can, etc etc. It doesn't mean that you are unable to teach principles.

Being thin is not necessarily the goal of proper nutrition and yes, most coaches can perform the skills that their athletes can, though in a limited manner. But again, Glassman doesn't train athletes, he trains average people to some degree of general fitness. So I would expect him to exhibit at least a basic level of fitness. It's like Shugart. Access to all that training info and those wonder supps and he looks like he's never seen a gym.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adversity04 View Post
They actually warn against rhabdo and encourage you to start out slow and work your way into things. One persons perspective is not representative of the whole community.

I would have thought that Glassman's quote was somewhat representative of the community.

In all seriousness, if you've found something that works for you and you can stick with, power to you. But you have to appreciate that crossfit is going to get called out for being cult-like and in certain situations downright dangerous. (You could make the argument that a SF run on shoes is cult-like.)

I will give you this though, the crossfit chicks are pretty damned hot.

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/...llisonNYC1.jpg

Which WOD features giving a girl a wedgie?

lefty
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post #24 of 25
11/28/07 at 9:04am
all of them..

with the right technique.


Also, I don't consider Crossfit the be all end all workout plan to become amazing at everything. But I do believe that if you only have time to be doing one thing, it is one of the most well rounded. It gives you the GPP base to raise the plateau which you can improve upon in your specialized activity.
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post #25 of 25
11/29/07 at 9:26pm
I've been Crossfitting for 4-5 years. The cult mentality gets old, but it provides outstanding fitness. I'm 43 years old with 3 kids and I don't have time for three 1-hour lifting sessions offset by 3 cardio sessions on the opposite days. CF lets me stay much more fit than others my age with an average workout time of 15-20 minutes. Now that 15-20 minutes is balls to the wall and when I'm done, I'm bent over with my hands on my knees sucking wind. At my age I'm past the point of working out to simply pump up my biceps and pecs; I want a body I can actually use.

Try it out. I think it's the best bang for the buck there is. Don't get caught up in the hype/cult mentality though. Just do it.
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