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Tom Ford Tuxedo vs Dormeuil Ambassador Bespoke Tuxedo - which route is best?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Gents - I'm new here and have a question for you all... I'm in the market for a high end tuxedo, and am considering a Tom Ford. I've bought one suit from a custom tailor before, and I wasn't too impressed. He charged me too much ($2,500) for a suit made of Scabal Super 150's... He's approached me about building a custom tuxedo made of fabric from the Ambassador (Super 180's) collection from Dormeuil. 

What are your thoughts here? He may not be the right tailor, but I'd consider speaking to others about it who are local here (Seattle). I really want the TF tuxedo, but am curious to know if you guys think the custom route is better for the price. I appreciate all of your input! Thank you!

PS - Also would consider this Brioni from Neiman...

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/Brioni-One-Button-Peaked-Lapel-Tuxedo/prod162510186/p.prod

post #2 of 17
Which fits you the best? Your Tom Ford or the custom made suit?


If you are more impressed by having a tag that says Tom Ford, then just go with TF.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

Don't know which fits best, yet... A custom would be custom...

More concerned with quality, etc... 

post #4 of 17
don't be concern with quality, as a first step.
Be concerned with fit.

How did your one suit from the custom tailor fit? was it custom made for you?

Don't be deceived by the ever higher number of "super" either.
post #5 of 17
Super numbers are IMHO not important and they recently became a nice way to rip off less knowledgeable customers who believe that a excessive super number equals quality. I would stay away from a Super 180 (even for a dinner suit) unless you are into wrinkles and little durability.
post #6 of 17
Going to another tailor for a bespoke (if it's really bespoke for that price) suit would mean a different house cut and starting again from square one as far as getting the fit perfected. Will it be something that you will like and worth what you paid for? That's something that can only be answered once the product is completed. Are you willing to take that risk?

As far as getting a Tom Ford tuxedo or any other RTW brand for that matter, determine first if it will fit you and work well with your body type. IMHO, there's less chance of disappointment when going for RTW if you can only make one big purchase.
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee_44106 View Post

don't be concern with quality, as a first step.
Be concerned with fit.

How did your one suit from the custom tailor fit? was it custom made for you?

Don't be deceived by the ever higher number of "super" either.


The suit from the custom tailor fit pretty well, but I still can't figure out if it was exactly custom made for me by HIM or not... The lapels were absolutely not how I requested them, and there were other major details (i.e. the pants were NOT how I wanted them) which I felt were different than how I requested them. I feel like it's entirely possible that the tailor buys the fabric and sends them somewhere else with measurements to be made. Not sure why I feel that way, but something just seems slightly awry... 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexE View Post

Super numbers are IMHO not important and they recently became a nice way to rip off less knowledgeable customers who believe that a excessive super number equals quality. I would stay away from a Super 180 (even for a dinner suit) unless you are into wrinkles and little durability.


Can you elaborate a bit more on why I should disregard super numbers? My tailor looked at two E. Zegna suits I bought recently (love the fit and the fabric is amazing), and said they were low quality. Frankly, I think they look better than the Super 150's suit he made for me... But what do I know?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyarkies View Post

Going to another tailor for a bespoke (if it's really bespoke for that price) suit would mean a different house cut and starting again from square one as far as getting the fit perfected. Will it be something that you will like and worth what you paid for? That's something that can only be answered once the product is completed. Are you willing to take that risk?

As far as getting a Tom Ford tuxedo or any other RTW brand for that matter, determine first if it will fit you and work well with your body type. IMHO, there's less chance of disappointment when going for RTW if you can only make one big purchase.


Does that seem cheap for a bespoke tuxedo? According to the tailor, I can buy the fabric from him and he'll make it - a bit of a rookie here, but from my understand that's bespoke. Can you expound on different house cut vs starting from square? I'm not entirely sure on how to quantify if it is "worth" what I paid for it... What metrics would I use to determine that? It seems like a poor risk to take.

I've found that I fit into Burberry London and E. Zegna very well. I've a more muscular/athletic build, so instead of a 44R, I go to a 46R and bring it in a notch. I've naturally got a V-shaped figure, but I'm not extremely lean. I also fluctuate in weight a bit given my weightlifting (and eating - HA!) hobby between seasons. They all seem to be in the same price range - so I suppose I'm trying to ensure the best value here.



Appreciate all of your help - definitely new here. 

post #8 of 17
post #9 of 17
^ Everything you say makes me believe that your tailor was/is a shyster.

On Super Numbers
This Article is a classic (and AFAIK totally accurate).

Basically making a cloth very fine also makes it very delicate. Also, you can make terrible quality cloth very fine, and you make make super-high quality cloth thick.

On your tailor
If you had a real bespoke suit then the chap should have been able to change absolutely everything - the shape of the lapels, the fit and cut of the trouser, everything. If you brought your displeasure to his attention and he didn't fix it, then there is a good reason - he is sending out work to be done by other people. This isn't absolutely the worst thing in the world, but the smoke and mirrors should raise questions.

Your Zenga suits may be low quality from a constructional point of view (I think they use half-canvas rather than full - but I'm no expert on EZ suits). However the cloth is usually on-par with medium range cloth, and if the fit makes you happy then he should have recognised that fact. A bespoke tailor's job is not just to make a suit that fits your body, but also your mind. That's part of why the best really are the best. Their technical knowledge is equalled by their understanding of their customer.

To answer your question: buy the Tom Ford. You know what you're getting instead of gabling with $X,XXX.
post #10 of 17
Does this tailor have a pedigree? Was he trained at Row etc.? There are too many bespoke tailors out there turning out mediocre products with less than stellar fit to recommend that route without seeing his product.
post #11 of 17

blackhood: IIRC, the hierarchical quality suit list thread says Ermenegildo Zegna stuff is fully-canvassed and good quality (typical $2-3k Euro style stuff). It's the Z Zegna line that's half-canvassed and mediocre.

 

dapper: 'bespoke' is kind of a...loaded term, and there are some different opinions on exactly how a house needs to function to be considered 'bespoke' (who does the measuring, cutting and sewing, how exactly it's patterned, various details of how it's constructed and blah blah). Just being cut from a roll of cloth isn't enough to qualify it as 'bespoke' by at least some definitions. Just about the only thing you're on solid ground with is that it's definitely 'bespoke' if it was commissioned from one of the traditional Savile Row houses :P Beyond that, I'd usually just stay on the safe side and call it 'custom' or something to avoid the whole argument.

 

$2500 is not a particularly high price for 'true bespoke' in a 'developed' country. You certainly could be getting 'true bespoke' at that price, but there are places that will charge a lot more for it. But I think there's a question as to whether it was 'legit' based on the experience you had. Certainly someone charging $2.5k and advertising bespoke tailoring should not be making the mistakes you described in the first place, and should be able and willing to correct them once made. I don't think many SFites would recommend going back to a guy who charged you $2.5k for a 'bespoke' outfit and then got half the design details wrong, that does not seem like the path to success.

 

If you really need this tuxedo to be good and you don't have a lot of time to fiddle with it, it's probably best to get the best-fitting OTR one you can find in the style and quality you want and then get it tailored if necessary. I wouldn't limit yourself to the TF - it's possible a different high-end brand will wind up making you happier, why not give all the choices you have easily available a shot?

 

The quality of the cloth is probably the least important factor you have to worry about, to be honest. In the price range you're operating in, for a tuxedo, you're going to get good cloth whether you buy a good OTR brand or go to a reputable bespoke tailor. I wouldn't sweat it at all.

post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhood View Post

To answer your question: buy the Tom Ford. You know what you're getting instead of gabling with $X,XXX.

+1. Also, I refer you to Blackhood's other excellent post on going "custom":

http://www.styleforum.net/t/356471/when-you-should-go-bespoke
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 

Gentlemen, thank you SO MUCH for your insight. 

I have bought an OTR TF tuxedo, will post pictures after it's finished, along with some parting thoughts... SF is a tremendous resource. A thousand times, thank you!

post #14 of 17
I recommend you post fit pic here before you get it tailored and while you can still return it.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperGent View Post


Can you elaborate a bit more on why I should disregard super numbers? My tailor looked at two E. Zegna suits I bought recently (love the fit and the fabric is amazing), and said they were low quality. Frankly, I think they look better than the Super 150's suit he made for me... But what do I know?

Because it is largely a marketing thing - read the article, which has been linked in. In short: High super numbers are exclusive / expensive and feel nice on the skin, but they wrinkle, do not drape well and do not last as long.

Think more about the situation in which you want to wear the (dinner) suit (how frequently, at which occasions, during which season, in which climate) and what you value more (longevity vs. softness) and then discuss with a trustworthy tailor, which material and weight and weave is best for you.
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