• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Tom Ford Tuxedo vs Dormeuil Ambassador Bespoke Tuxedo - which route is best?

DapperGent

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Gents - I'm new here and have a question for you all... I'm in the market for a high end tuxedo, and am considering a Tom Ford. I've bought one suit from a custom tailor before, and I wasn't too impressed. He charged me too much ($2,500) for a suit made of Scabal Super 150's... He's approached me about building a custom tuxedo made of fabric from the Ambassador (Super 180's) collection from Dormeuil.

What are your thoughts here? He may not be the right tailor, but I'd consider speaking to others about it who are local here (Seattle). I really want the TF tuxedo, but am curious to know if you guys think the custom route is better for the price. I appreciate all of your input! Thank you!

PS - Also would consider this Brioni from Neiman...

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/Brioni-One-Button-Peaked-Lapel-Tuxedo/prod162510186/p.prod
 
Last edited:

lee_44106

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
8,043
Reaction score
100
Which fits you the best? Your Tom Ford or the custom made suit?


If you are more impressed by having a tag that says Tom Ford, then just go with TF.
 

DapperGent

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Don't know which fits best, yet... A custom would be custom...

More concerned with quality, etc...
 

lee_44106

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
8,043
Reaction score
100
don't be concern with quality, as a first step.
Be concerned with fit.

How did your one suit from the custom tailor fit? was it custom made for you?

Don't be deceived by the ever higher number of "super" either.
 

AlexE

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
253
Super numbers are IMHO not important and they recently became a nice way to rip off less knowledgeable customers who believe that a excessive super number equals quality. I would stay away from a Super 180 (even for a dinner suit) unless you are into wrinkles and little durability.
 

nyarkies

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
1,477
Going to another tailor for a bespoke (if it's really bespoke for that price) suit would mean a different house cut and starting again from square one as far as getting the fit perfected. Will it be something that you will like and worth what you paid for? That's something that can only be answered once the product is completed. Are you willing to take that risk?

As far as getting a Tom Ford tuxedo or any other RTW brand for that matter, determine first if it will fit you and work well with your body type. IMHO, there's less chance of disappointment when going for RTW if you can only make one big purchase.
 

DapperGent

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
don't be concern with quality, as a first step.
Be concerned with fit.

How did your one suit from the custom tailor fit? was it custom made for you?

Don't be deceived by the ever higher number of "super" either.

The suit from the custom tailor fit pretty well, but I still can't figure out if it was exactly custom made for me by HIM or not... The lapels were absolutely not how I requested them, and there were other major details (i.e. the pants were NOT how I wanted them) which I felt were different than how I requested them. I feel like it's entirely possible that the tailor buys the fabric and sends them somewhere else with measurements to be made. Not sure why I feel that way, but something just seems slightly awry...


Super numbers are IMHO not important and they recently became a nice way to rip off less knowledgeable customers who believe that a excessive super number equals quality. I would stay away from a Super 180 (even for a dinner suit) unless you are into wrinkles and little durability.

Can you elaborate a bit more on why I should disregard super numbers? My tailor looked at two E. Zegna suits I bought recently (love the fit and the fabric is amazing), and said they were low quality. Frankly, I think they look better than the Super 150's suit he made for me... But what do I know?


Going to another tailor for a bespoke (if it's really bespoke for that price) suit would mean a different house cut and starting again from square one as far as getting the fit perfected. Will it be something that you will like and worth what you paid for? That's something that can only be answered once the product is completed. Are you willing to take that risk?

As far as getting a Tom Ford tuxedo or any other RTW brand for that matter, determine first if it will fit you and work well with your body type. IMHO, there's less chance of disappointment when going for RTW if you can only make one big purchase.

Does that seem cheap for a bespoke tuxedo? According to the tailor, I can buy the fabric from him and he'll make it - a bit of a rookie here, but from my understand that's bespoke. Can you expound on different house cut vs starting from square? I'm not entirely sure on how to quantify if it is "worth" what I paid for it... What metrics would I use to determine that? It seems like a poor risk to take.

I've found that I fit into Burberry London and E. Zegna very well. I've a more muscular/athletic build, so instead of a 44R, I go to a 46R and bring it in a notch. I've naturally got a V-shaped figure, but I'm not extremely lean. I also fluctuate in weight a bit given my weightlifting (and eating - HA!) hobby between seasons. They all seem to be in the same price range - so I suppose I'm trying to ensure the best value here.



Appreciate all of your help - definitely new here.
 

Blackhood

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
376
^ Everything you say makes me believe that your tailor was/is a shyster.

On Super Numbers
This Article is a classic (and AFAIK totally accurate).

Basically making a cloth very fine also makes it very delicate. Also, you can make terrible quality cloth very fine, and you make make super-high quality cloth thick.

On your tailor
If you had a real bespoke suit then the chap should have been able to change absolutely everything - the shape of the lapels, the fit and cut of the trouser, everything. If you brought your displeasure to his attention and he didn't fix it, then there is a good reason - he is sending out work to be done by other people. This isn't absolutely the worst thing in the world, but the smoke and mirrors should raise questions.

Your Zenga suits may be low quality from a constructional point of view (I think they use half-canvas rather than full - but I'm no expert on EZ suits). However the cloth is usually on-par with medium range cloth, and if the fit makes you happy then he should have recognised that fact. A bespoke tailor's job is not just to make a suit that fits your body, but also your mind. That's part of why the best really are the best. Their technical knowledge is equalled by their understanding of their customer.

To answer your question: buy the Tom Ford. You know what you're getting instead of gabling with $X,XXX.
 

Jamesgatz

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
1,483
Reaction score
520
Does this tailor have a pedigree? Was he trained at Row etc.? There are too many bespoke tailors out there turning out mediocre products with less than stellar fit to recommend that route without seeing his product.
 
Last edited:

AdamWill

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
255
Reaction score
58
blackhood: IIRC, the hierarchical quality suit list thread says Ermenegildo Zegna stuff is fully-canvassed and good quality (typical $2-3k Euro style stuff). It's the Z Zegna line that's half-canvassed and mediocre.

dapper: 'bespoke' is kind of a...loaded term, and there are some different opinions on exactly how a house needs to function to be considered 'bespoke' (who does the measuring, cutting and sewing, how exactly it's patterned, various details of how it's constructed and blah blah). Just being cut from a roll of cloth isn't enough to qualify it as 'bespoke' by at least some definitions. Just about the only thing you're on solid ground with is that it's definitely 'bespoke' if it was commissioned from one of the traditional Savile Row houses :p Beyond that, I'd usually just stay on the safe side and call it 'custom' or something to avoid the whole argument.

$2500 is not a particularly high price for 'true bespoke' in a 'developed' country. You certainly could be getting 'true bespoke' at that price, but there are places that will charge a lot more for it. But I think there's a question as to whether it was 'legit' based on the experience you had. Certainly someone charging $2.5k and advertising bespoke tailoring should not be making the mistakes you described in the first place, and should be able and willing to correct them once made. I don't think many SFites would recommend going back to a guy who charged you $2.5k for a 'bespoke' outfit and then got half the design details wrong, that does not seem like the path to success.

If you really need this tuxedo to be good and you don't have a lot of time to fiddle with it, it's probably best to get the best-fitting OTR one you can find in the style and quality you want and then get it tailored if necessary. I wouldn't limit yourself to the TF - it's possible a different high-end brand will wind up making you happier, why not give all the choices you have easily available a shot?

The quality of the cloth is probably the least important factor you have to worry about, to be honest. In the price range you're operating in, for a tuxedo, you're going to get good cloth whether you buy a good OTR brand or go to a reputable bespoke tailor. I wouldn't sweat it at all.
 

DapperGent

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Gentlemen, thank you SO MUCH for your insight.

I have bought an OTR TF tuxedo, will post pictures after it's finished, along with some parting thoughts... SF is a tremendous resource. A thousand times, thank you!
 

cbbuff

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
45
I recommend you post fit pic here before you get it tailored and while you can still return it.
 

AlexE

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
253

Can you elaborate a bit more on why I should disregard super numbers? My tailor looked at two E. Zegna suits I bought recently (love the fit and the fabric is amazing), and said they were low quality. Frankly, I think they look better than the Super 150's suit he made for me... But what do I know?


Because it is largely a marketing thing - read the article, which has been linked in. In short: High super numbers are exclusive / expensive and feel nice on the skin, but they wrinkle, do not drape well and do not last as long.

Think more about the situation in which you want to wear the (dinner) suit (how frequently, at which occasions, during which season, in which climate) and what you value more (longevity vs. softness) and then discuss with a trustworthy tailor, which material and weight and weave is best for you.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 45 40.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 44 39.6%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 5 4.5%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 18 16.2%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 25 22.5%

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
504,421
Messages
10,573,893
Members
223,687
Latest member
corcelleglauru
Top