Eric, I appreciate what you're trying to do but you should know: when someone puts in "patented shirt collar" on a search engine, this thread will come up, with all it's comments. There are fashion editors who read the SF. Menswear is about evolution in very small increments. Even small innovations are viewed as radical. I sell really well to a luxury market that buys all the goods talked about on SF. Yet, only two individual from the SF , that I know of, have what I make. In the SF, what I do is about as popular as a radical collar design, but, unlike you, I'm not here to make a sale or convince anyone. The SF is alot of fun and you can learn alot but, your not doing well. Your on the ground getting your ass kicked. Seriously, get up or get out before your reputation is destroyed.