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A visit to PN\P Firenze - Page 6

post #76 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

^well, we wouldn't have to go to Florence to see the clothes if there were better pictures. As it stands, I can't see a single item of clothing with the homeless gentlemen blocking the entry.
I went to the PN/P site to get a better look at the MA+ jacket when D first posted this review. You can do that if you are interested. The photos are pretty good quality and there are plenty of other items on the site if you want to get an idea of what the shop carries.
I actually visited the store myself, but I was wearing ninja-wear so they didn't see me, even when I asked for help. They are dead now.
post #77 of 93
Thread Starter 
As a larger point, I think the contrast between Pn\p and the other store @Synthese took me to, Luisaviaroma, highlights the value of articulate, considered, passionate retailing. When you walk into Marco's store, he can tell you why he bought each piece, what it means to him, and you can see how it fits into the store. It makes you want to try stuff on and talk to him. LVR is like a nightclub with racks of overpriced clothes shoved against the walls. These clothes are living in captivity, and they can barely breathe.

I could walk into LVR a thousand times without gaining much appreciation for what they're selling. I spent an hour in PNP, Synth had to drag me out of there so we weren't to late to meet Steph, I went back the next day, and can't wait to go again in June. Maybe you don't like what they're selling, but you at least have to appreciate how they're selling it.
post #78 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

The one who bought the jacket was me. Now lets stop calling each other names or I will start deleting posts.

actually i think it would be great if you'd clean up the thread a bit
post #79 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

1) The classic tailoring proportion are EXACTLY what these guys are not doing. They're pursuing a singular vision of aesthetics that doesn't include classical notions of beauty inherited from the Greeks (as we perceive it now, of course, ancient Greeks were very Eastern in their outlook and prone to stylistic flourishes we'd consider tacky).
2) Your perceptions about drop crotch pants and the wider aesthetic notion of beauty through proportions and cut is not universal but very easily culturally situated (West-European centric), Claims to universalism are unwarranted.
3) You will never "get it" unless you understand the first two points and approach these type of designers on their own terms. A good way to start is to stop bringing everything back to yourself, what you want to see on your body, what you like and the whole game of MemememememeME!! In fact it is very hard to appreciate almost any form of creation without removing these mental barriers.

Across the world, looking beautiful is just one of many reasons why people wear particular clothes; there are other motives at play, such as to look rich, to look well connected, to look tough, to look “in,” to earn membership in an elite group etc etc. I don't think these brands represent an 'alternative' path to beauty but rather try to tap into these other drives that we have.
post #80 of 93

Marco looks great, I'd love to visit the store - that aspect of the experience comes across really clearly!

post #81 of 93

Its comical to see how the very same exercise of the poster (clashing dress pants/shirt/tie with an artisanal moto jacket) turned into a same exercise but thread-wise, with clashing views of "classic" versus "street" menswear.

 

Some thoughts:

 

It seems that designers such as MA+ and CCP are wrongfully associated with ill-fitting leather jackets, but generally a moto jacket needs to be fitted in the chest and sleeves when bought new. The reason for this is function: the jacket acts as protective layer when you fall of your bike (for this same reason you don't see racebikers in loose fitting jackets). Also, the leather will break in when riding you bike, and while doing so you'll notice those long sleeves wont be so long anymore!

 

Also, the reservations agains drop crotch pants might be understandable in a forum on "classic menswear", but actually, looser/fuller pants look great with slim leather jackets, because they add balance to the overall look. This is why a slim leather jacket with skinny jeans is generally not a good look, and als why the overall look of the MA+ jacket with the fuller dress pants turned out quite good

 

anyhow, just my .002 cents!

 

Also, I must say that I definitely loved the write-up on PNP, and would appreciate to find out more on Marco's viewpoints on men's style! :fonz:

post #82 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmert View Post

looser/fuller pants look great with slim leather jackets, because they add balance to the overall look. This is why a slim leather jacket with skinny jeans is generally not a good look,

Ramones? Dior homme? You can't really generalize.
post #83 of 93

/\

I should look this up, but I think that in the classic Slimane silhouette the DH 19cm jeans were worn rather loose (as opposed to skintight). And this I definitely checked: boutiques carrying CCP leathers always have their models carry looser/fuller pants.

post #84 of 93

great post and that's a killer jacket!  

 

(and goodness he really looks like Jurgen Klopp!) 

post #85 of 93
Too much Flusser, not enough appreciating cool things even if you wouldn't wear them.
post #86 of 93

Unbelragazzo,

Perhaps this thread is better forgotten, but I have to point out that you have resisted my request that you explain the appeal of the PN/P aesthetic to us Classic Menswear guys. Please tell us what you like about the silhouette, about the look, about the associations, the culture and who, in the public eye, is doing this look well? I'm genuinely interested.

 

But also would you please tell us, given that the thread was started as a very positive piece about PN/P, if you paid retail for your jacket, or if you're journalistically compromised? I'm not accusing you of anything, but I do think it's a fair question.

post #87 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by manself View Post

Unbelragazzo,
Perhaps this thread is better forgotten, but I have to point out that you have resisted my request that you explain the appeal of the PN/P aesthetic to us Classic Menswear guys. Please tell us what you like about the silhouette, about the look, about the associations, the culture and who, in the public eye, is doing this look well? I'm genuinely interested.

I think this section of my original post should give you the answer:
Quote:
I'm a spaceship pilot from the future. I have an exoskeleton. I'm a knight. I am Batman.

Are you asking me what I like about the crime-fighting superhero look? Or why this jacket makes me feel like Batman?

As far as who in the public eye is doing this look well, I have no idea. I know little more about these designers and the culture that surrounds them than you do. The idea for the piece is "classic menswear guy comes to streetwear store." I'm telling you what my eyes and body are telling me when I look at these pieces and try them on.

@Fuuma has written posts in this thread that are much more informative than mine. I encourage you to read them, if you are "genuinely interested." We both tried to engage you in a conversation here and here, but you went away. If your question is, "what do people see in these clothes?" the posts so far provide the beginnings of an answer. If your question is "why won't you stop being so stupid and try to look like Cary Grant?" then we're not going to have a productive conversation.
Quote:
But also would you please tell us, given that the thread was started as a very positive piece about PN/P, if you paid retail for your jacket, or if you're journalistically compromised? I'm not accusing you of anything, but I do think it's a fair question.

It's a fair question. I paid full retail price for the jacket. I actually didn't buy the jacket in the store, but ordered it from PN\P a couple of weeks after I got back to the United States. I took a little bit of literary license for the sake of the story and integrated the purchase with my visit, but I did not actually leave the store with the jacket. As a result I did not pay VAT, but this would be the case for anyone ordering from the US. I didn't pay shipping, but again, the store offers free shipping for large orders (I think anything over 1k euro). I got no special treatment or discount from the store. I expect to pay full sticker price for anything I order in the future from the store.

More generally, I've written about conflicts of interest in journalism here and here. In the second link I disclose all products I had received for free up until that point. I try to make it clear when a store or manufacturer has given me something for free, for example here and here. In these cases, it is always an offer initiated by whomever I'm covering. I never ask for free products, nor do I ever condition coverage on receiving free products.
post #88 of 93
Props for that response.
post #89 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Props for that response.

Most others would not have been as nice as @unbelragazzo so props as well
post #90 of 93
We have a strict policy about disclosure of payment in cash or in kind. In general, this type of compensation is not allowed. We do have paid review processes, but these are subject to oversight, and as a rule, our editors do not participate.
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