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A Row of Opportunity: Savile Row's pivot towards RTW - Page 13

post #181 of 192

There's no significant time issue involved in posting pics on the net. Inclination to doing so (whether from anonymity concerns, general lack of interest, or simply thinking it's not a nice thing to do), well, that's another matter entirely. Everyone's entitled to come to a different decision on that score. But to argue that people (wealthy or otherwise) don't have time to take snaps; that's just ridiculous. Must take all of 3 minutes, tops, including taking the snap itself.

 

Anyway, I wore a bespoke Ede jacket today; you can see it in today's WAYWRN. I'd call it traditionally cut, but certainly not a "sack" style. Admittedly, the pose obscures the fit, but it should still be reasonably obvious.

post #182 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Reeves View Post

I think that you are missing something though. Savile Row customers in my experience are not generally clothing enthusiasts or ones to do studious research on Bespoke. I can't imagine every Rolls Royce owner could tell you in detail how they work.

This, 1,000 times over.

There seems to be some underlying assumption that the majority of people who buy bespoke (particularly, for the sake of this discussion, on SR) are obsessed with clothes to the point that they would join an online forum to discuss them. In reality that number is very small. After you eliminate the large percentage of patrons who buy bespoke because their father did, buy bespoke because they run in a social circle where that is the norm, buy bespoke to execute something completely outlandish, buy bespoke to brag about it being custom, etc (or some mixture of those reasons), you're left with a very small group of customers who obsess over every detail like we do here.

I'm not saying there isn't some overlap (there clearly is). But I'd be willing to bet there's a very small percentage of people that use SF as a launch pad to Savile Row and even fewer that use Savile Row as a launch pad to SF.
post #183 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

There is also strong quantitative data that supports my contention, if you don't buy my argument.

Would love to see it (the data), seriously - I wonder what is being measured and how. While the example of a poor man working multiple jobs vs. the lucky rich guy loafing around supports your conclusion, it is not representative of what is in any way typical. The fact is that those earning less money on a yearly basis tend to work fewer hours than those earnings more money*.

*Lets not play games with $50K vs. $20K. "More money" in this scenario is $6K suit money, so pick something like $250K+ or $500K+.

Here's a quick and dirty bootstrap approach. The average private sector working American works ~34.5 hours a week (BLS - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t18.htm). The average annual wage is $46,440 (BLS - http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000).

Do you think most people making $250K+ or $500K+ work less than 34.5 hours? If you're focus is on those unfortunate souls working 60 or 80 hours for minimum wage, yeah that sucks, but they are outliers.
post #184 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post

This, 1,000 times over.

There seems to be some underlying assumption that the majority of people who buy bespoke (particularly, for the sake of this discussion, on SR) are obsessed with clothes to the point that they would join an online forum to discuss them. In reality that number is very small. After you eliminate the large percentage of patrons who buy bespoke because their father did, buy bespoke because they run in a social circle where that is the norm, buy bespoke to execute something completely outlandish, buy bespoke to brag about it being custom, etc (or some mixture of those reasons), you're left with a very small group of customers who obsess over every detail like we do here.

I'm not saying there isn't some overlap (there clearly is). But I'd be willing to bet there's a very small percentage of people that use SF as a launch pad to Savile Row and even fewer that use Savile Row as a launch pad to SF.

I agree with the thrust of your post, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone actually suggest this part: "some underlying assumption that the majority of people who buy bespoke (particularly, for the sake of this discussion, on SR) are obsessed with clothes to the point that they would join an online forum to discuss them." The consensus appears to be pretty firmly that SF-types are not the core client. Maybe I skipped over some posts.
post #185 of 192
I read the last few pages of this thread on my phone and not in one sitting so I may too have missed something. But I read the subtext of some of these posts to mean, "because I don't see bespoke suits posted, they must not be doing well" or "the health of a tailor can be traced to its presence in circles that know clothes." As David pointed out with his initial statement, neither assumption is true.
post #186 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

Would love to see it (the data), seriously - I wonder what is being measured and how. While the example of a poor man working multiple jobs vs. the lucky rich guy loafing around supports your conclusion, it is not representative of what is in any way typical. The fact is that those earning less money on a yearly basis tend to work fewer hours than those earnings more money*.

*Lets not play games with $50K vs. $20K. "More money" in this scenario is $6K suit money, so pick something like $250K+ or $500K+.

Here's a quick and dirty bootstrap approach. The average private sector working American works ~34.5 hours a week (BLS - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t18.htm). The average annual wage is $46,440 (BLS - http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000).

Do you think most people making $250K+ or $500K+ work less than 34.5 hours? If you're focus is on those unfortunate souls working 60 or 80 hours for minimum wage, yeah that sucks, but they are outliers.

The data I have is re. Internet usage on this and other sites of its ilk. The crux is that a lot of well compensated work is spent surfing the web, posting about clothing, cars, travel, politics, and hobbies. A joke early on here was that Styleforum hours are billable. The so- called super zips are over-represented as well. The internet has increased our efficiency 300% and our productivity 10%(made up numbers, of course.) Anyone who works at a desk and says the didn't fuck around on any given day? Smart money says it's a lie.

Tangentially, women seem to use mobile more than do men, to surf the net. Explanation is bored moms.
post #187 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbonbasted View Post

There seems to be some underlying assumption that the majority of people who buy bespoke (particularly, for the sake of this discussion, on SR) are obsessed with clothes to the point that they would join an online forum to discuss them. In reality that number is very small. After you eliminate the large percentage of patrons who buy bespoke because their father did, buy bespoke because they run in a social circle where that is the norm, buy bespoke to execute something completely outlandish, buy bespoke to brag about it being custom, etc (or some mixture of those reasons), you're left with a very small group of customers who obsess over every detail like we do here.

Agreed, I would go so far as to say we have more obsession here, especially with regards to 'fit', than even most of the tailors themselves, not just their customers. SF brought fit to the forefront of many customers' minds, as it was the first time ever that clients could compare and analyze each other's garments in photos. It's very hard, for example, to care much or notice a shoulder ripple when you're at say an afternoon fitting and late to something else, looking at a mirror, and likewise very hard for the tailor to care if 99% of his customers would happily take the garment as is. The atrocities of A&S are examples of this. But people like clothes for different reasons, so while a select few of us OCD SF members agonize over ripples and slight fitting flaws, there's always going to be a lot of clients and tailors who are much more into cloth, detail work, pattern matching, history etc than fit itself.
post #188 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdfast View Post

There's no significant time issue involved in posting pics on the net. Inclination to doing so (whether from anonymity concerns, general lack of interest, or simply thinking it's not a nice thing to do), well, that's another matter entirely. Everyone's entitled to come to a different decision on that score. But to argue that people (wealthy or otherwise) don't have time to take snaps; that's just ridiculous. Must take all of 3 minutes, tops, including taking the snap itself.

Anyway, I wore a bespoke Ede jacket today; you can see it in today's WAYWRN. I'd call it traditionally cut, but certainly not a "sack" style. Admittedly, the pose obscures the fit, but it should still be reasonably obvious.

Well I do think we are starting to go off topic a bit but I think it has a lot to do with inclination and also anonymity. Just look at this client list here. Most of them are from Savile Row and I didn't even include people like high ranking Generals and Admirals except Lord Inge.



People like this coming in, was just a daily occurrence, I just can't imagine a British PM posting selfie pics in a toilet!
post #189 of 192
I get what you're saying, and it may hold true for the typical office worker vs. the typical laborer. But the conversation has shifted from who works more, to who is busy while at work. Maybe that's a point you were making all along. Even then it's still debatable, though the office people have access to computers.

I still maintain my conviction that those office workers pulling serious $$$ tend to be very busy. The is too much competition for those seats for loafers to hang on to those spots.

Anyway I'll stop with this to avoid further derails...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

The data I have is re. Internet usage on this and other sites of its ilk. The crux is that a lot of well compensated work is spent surfing the web, posting about clothing, cars, travel, politics, and hobbies. A joke early on here was that Styleforum hours are billable. The so- called super zips are over-represented as well. The internet has increased our efficiency 300% and our productivity 10%(made up numbers, of course.) Anyone who works at a desk and says the didn't fuck around on any given day? Smart money says it's a lie.

Tangentially, women seem to use mobile more than do men, to surf the net. Explanation is bored moms.
post #190 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

I get what you're saying, and it may hold true for the typical office worker vs. the typical laborer. But the conversation has shifted from who works more, to who is busy while at work. Maybe that's a point you were making all along. Even then it's still debatable, though the office people have access to computers.

I still maintain my conviction that those office workers pulling serious $$$ tend to be very busy. The is too much competition for those seats for loafers to hang on to those spots.

Anyway I'll stop with this to avoid further derails...

We'll have to agree to disagree, which means that we're unlikely to convince the other of anything.

Now, should I pair inherited Huntsman with boots for a Paul Hardnen look.
post #191 of 192
Are boots shoes though?
post #192 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhood View Post

Are boots shoes though?

This sounds like one of those "is a white horse a horse," conundrums.
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