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Cutting workouts

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I switched back to HST for my summer cutting workout. I am beginning to think it might be better than a traditional 3 x 10 split or 5x5 workout because it allows higher intensity circuit type training in the early phases and muscle retaining heavier sets during the end of the workout. I also like hitting every muscle group every lifting day. Thoughts?

Still doing HIIT during non-lifting days.
post #2 of 24
I would think that the final weeks of HST wouldn't be very conducive to cutting. 1 or 2 sets of 5 reps is for growth and strength, not fat loss.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
I think cutting is mostly dependent on caloric intake anyways, but I like lifting heavy weights at low reps during cutting to ensure muscle maintainance.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117 View Post
I think cutting is mostly dependent on caloric intake anyways, but I like lifting heavy weights at low reps during cutting to ensure muscle maintainance.

I will never give up my 5x5, it just works for me.
post #5 of 24
No way will you get cut by doing only 5 reps (even with caloric restriction). Ken's right- that's for strength and mass. You'll never look ripped by only going up to 5 reps, I've never seen it. Why not just drop the weight a little and do more reps? You are bulky looking but not necessarily muscular, which is partly due to the whole 5x5 routine you've been doing (which was for bulking). I would drop the weight, concentrate on a full range of motion, and go for 12 reps. Even odoreater who is leaner than you doesn't look 'cut' (probably not his goal), by doing the whole 5x5 thing. I guess it's just a matter of what you want to look like though- I like the very cut ,ripped and long looking muscles that aren't bulky.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts4them View Post
No way will you get cut by doing only 5 reps (even with caloric restriction). Ken's right- that's for strength and mass. You'll never look ripped by only going up to 5 reps, I've never seen it. Why not just drop the weight a little and do more reps? You are bulky looking but not necessarily muscular, which is partly due to the whole 5x5 routine you've been doing (which was for bulking). I would drop the weight, concentrate on a full range of motion, and go for 12 reps. Even odoreater who is leaner than you doesn't look 'cut' (probably not his goal), by doing the whole 5x5 thing. I guess it's just a matter of what you want to look like though- I like the very cut ,ripped and long looking muscles that aren't bulky.

My HST workout uses 2 sets of 10 exercises @ 12, 9, and 6 reps, not 5. My 5x5 workout was a cutting workout not bulking, simply because it focuses on strength rather than hypertrophy. The "cutting" part of the workout is caloric restriction and cardio, not weights. Getting "ripped" is about diet and to some degree exercise, not really weight training. You can get "ripped" doing only body weight exercises without difficulty. The purpose of weight lifting during cutting is muscle maintainance. Doing low weight high rep is just going to act as a glorified form of cardio, and not accomplish much, although HST advocates the high rep relatively low weight part of its workout as increasing neurophysical stamina. I'm not sure if I buy that. I'm doing the low weight high rep part of HST with high intensity and supersetting.

As far as 5x5 for cutting, I think it's a pretty effective workout if done right, however, I find at least the 5x5 routine that I'm doing a bit too time intensive, and also not very suited for recovery, at least with the weight and intensity that I'm doing. That said, I think HST is probably better overall for either cutting or bulking. I'm doing HST with somewhat less weight than I would during my bulking phase with caloric excess but not by too much, 10-20% less or so weight with caloric deficit in the 500 kcal/day range. My goals are essentially loss of fat only, with very little if any loss of LBM so my workout/diet will be quite different than a traditional cutting workout, this is because my ideal body type is somewhere around 10-12% BF while carrying the same or slightly more LBM than I currently have, which is probably around 210-215 lb for my frame, about 10-15 lb less than where I am at now. I'm comfortable with cutting 1 lb a week.
post #7 of 24
You aren't still upping your weights are you?
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts4them View Post
You aren't still upping your weights are you?

As far as the weight lifted in my routines, I was lifting a bit more in 5x5 than I was in HST simply because the number of total reps per workout were a bit less. I base my workouts around total work done based on reps weight and the exercise in question, and try to keep the workouts fairly close. My current HST cycle is about 20% lighter than the last one I did and significantly lower in weight than my 5x5s. The 5x5 workout was still quite effective for cutting, though, to be honest. From the end of HST in March to June which is about 3 months, I cut 12 lb, with no change in supplementation, which is consistent with my daily caloric deficit of 500 kcal.
post #9 of 24
No such thing as a cutting workout, only cutting diets.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117 View Post
The "cutting" part of the workout is caloric restriction and cardio, not weights. Getting "ripped" is about diet and to some degree exercise, not really weight training. You can get "ripped" doing only body weight exercises without difficulty. The purpose of weight lifting during cutting is muscle maintainance.

As a skinny guy whose main problem during cutting phases is avoiding losing muscle along with the fat (I can drop weight like nothing, but it's difficult to force my body to retain the muscle while it's dropping fat), I +1 this. I usually do 5x5 full-body circuits when I cut (like I am now) even though I know that at best I'm going to be maintaining my poundages, and occasionally dropping slightly, because it seeems to best signal my body to retain muscle. If I start doing even a "standard" 3x8 workout, and especially if I start to break up my workouts into "chest day", "shoulders day", "back day", "legs day", etc, I start losing strength pretty quickly.

YMMV, obviously. And as anyone who's seen any of my What Are You Wearing pictures can attest, I'm obviously not the world's greatest bodybuilder or anything. This is all coming from a guy who, at 6'1" and currently about 165 pounds, has an "extreme cutting" caloric intake of ~2400 calories/day....
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamG View Post
No such thing as a cutting workout, only cutting diets.

Cutting workouts refer to what you're lifting during cutting phases.
post #12 of 24
I liked HST and did it for some time as I think Haycock has some good science to back up his program.

As I am assuming you did, I also cut out the 15s. It's a solid program.

While I will probably go back to the program some day, my joints became quite sore with the higher frequency of training and greater volume.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SartorialSheepdog View Post
I liked HST and did it for some time as I think Haycock has some good science to back up his program.

As I am assuming you did, I also cut out the 15s. It's a solid program.

While I will probably go back to the program some day, my joints became quite sore with the higher frequency of training and greater volume.

I just switched the 15/10/5 to 12/9/6 which I think is a more versatile and useful range.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzt3117 View Post
Getting "ripped" is about diet and to some degree exercise, not really weight training. You can get "ripped" doing only body weight exercises without difficulty.
Then why isn't everybody ripped?

Quote:
The purpose of weight lifting during cutting is muscle maintainance. Doing low weight high rep is just going to act as a glorified form of cardio, and not accomplish much,

Maintaining muscle isn't that difficult. You can take a 2 week break from any kind of activity and still maintain most of your current muscle mass with a good diet. It's growth that's hard. If your only goal is to keep your muscles from shrinking, 3 sets at 15 reps sure won't make you shrink.

High rep workouts aren't glorified cardio. Try running for a month and see how big you get. Now try doing combination lifts for a month at 30 reps per set and see how big you get.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken View Post
Then why isn't everybody ripped?

That's obvious but it follows that they aren't able to sustain a sufficient diet to lower their BF%.

Quote:
Maintaining muscle isn't that difficult. You can take a 2 week break from any kind of activity and still maintain most of your current muscle mass with a good diet. It's growth that's hard. If your only goal is to keep your muscles from shrinking, 3 sets at 15 reps sure won't make you shrink.

My goals are 100% muscle maintainance and ideally hypertrophy, combined with fat loss.

Quote:
High rep workouts aren't glorified cardio. Try running for a month and see how big you get. Now try doing combination lifts for a month at 30 reps per set and see how big you get.

Hypertrophy requires muscle damage. Low weight high rep sets (depending on the amount lifted) don't cause significant muscle damage, meaning that they don't really cause hypertrophy. While it's potentially possible that they are OK for maintanance, there have been a number of articles lately suggesting that work done is the metric you should use when evaluating a cutting workout. Hypertrophy, or at least repair, uses energy, specifically protein, which is good for cutting because of the thermogenic effect as well. I think a 12/9/6 HST split will be effective, especially because of its periodiziation and changes in intensity.
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