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Fresco Suit Battle: "Tobacco" Brown vs. "Wheat" Tan - Page 3

Poll Results: Which color fresco do you prefer for a suit?

 
  • 57% (31)
    Brown
  • 42% (23)
    Tan
54 Total Votes  
post #31 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I don't think you know enough to judge when someone is being a "drone" to "rules" or simply understands clothing better than you.

Inevitably, you will claim that I am drawing an offensive, unfounded conclusion, but I would remind you that I had I wasted the time to carefully, rationally explain, you would just as likely have accused me of being argumentative. Hence, I have taken the easier route.

Should you want to learn something, let me know, and we'll try again.

You do know a lot about clothing, more than me, but I know enough to know that I don't like linen for suits. I've owned several and they were mistakes. I never wore them. Too much maintenance as poorsod agrees

Also, you kinda derailed the topic of this thread by injecting the discussion about the material. This is supposed to be a thread about color. confused.gif
post #32 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post

You do know a lot about clothing, more than me, but I know enough to know that I don't like linen for suits. I've owned several and they were mistakes. I never wore them. Too much maintenance as poorsod agrees

Also, you kinda derailed the topic of this thread by injecting the discussion about the material. This is supposed to be a thread about color. confused.gif

Please note I toned down my comments to you; rough day. Apologies.

Color cannot be meaningfully discussed in a vacuum. Choosing a good color requires an assessment of material and context. In the context of summer suitings, fresco is on the more formal side. The fact that it is more coarse than standard worsteds worn in cooler seasons doesn't change that.

You don't have to like linen. You don't have to wear it. But you also don't have to wear brown or tan suits. Isn't it obvious that good style requires knowing what one should or shouldn't do, versus what he merely wants? Otherwise, there really cannot be a distinction between good and bad. It takes no talent to simply do what you desire.
post #33 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post

I prefer the brown because it's bolder while still being unshowy - and brown isn't worn enough as a suit colour these days. We need to bring it back.

Couldn't agree more. In fact, I saw this thread just a few minutes after seeing and ordering a nice three piece brown flannel on ebay. Doing my part.

Also, I've never really liked tan suits much, especially in wool. Sportcoats, sure. Khakis, sure. Suits, wool trousers? Not so much.
post #34 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post

President%2BRonald%2BReagan%2Bin%2BBrown%2BSuit%2BLife-Size%2BCardboard%2BStand-Up.jpg

He approves of the brown suit but I prefer tan. It all depends on the use

The only other brown Minnis fresco shade is this one

0518.jpg
post #35 of 122
Guys, Reagan was President of the United States. Leader of the Free World. He could afford to make decisions others cannot. He could have showed up anywhere in a velour track suit, and the first thing anybody thought would have been: "Holy shit--it's the President!"

Like I said, style depends on understanding context. To understate: the President's context is somewhat particular.
post #36 of 122

Yebbut, Mr Reagan was certainly not a farmer.

 

BTW, Jimmy Stewart is incredulous...

 

 

More seriously, there was - coincidentally - this rather beautiful brown suit posted just yesterday by taylorstav in the WAYWRN thread...

 

 

Unusual these days? Perhaps. Slightly dandyish? Maybe. Old-fashioned? Not really, the cut is contemporary but equally not that of a fashion victim. And either overly casual or rural? Certainly not.*

 

*Just to make it clear, and in case Foo tries to jump on me here, this is in reference to 'brown is for the farmer' not in relation to the question of brown/tan fresco vs. linen or cotton. :) 

post #37 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Guys, Reagan was President of the United States. Leader of the Free World. He could afford to make decisions others cannot. He could have showed up anywhere in a velour track suit, and the first thing anybody thought would have been: "Holy shit--it's the President!"

Would it be off-putting to the average American if someone showed up to a business casual event in a tan fresco suit?
post #38 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post

Yebbut, Mr Reagan was certainly not a farmer.

BTW, Jimmy Stewart is incredulous...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



More seriously, there was - coincidentally - this rather beautiful brown suit posted just yesterday by taylorstav in the WAYWRN thread...



Unusual these days? Perhaps. Slightly dandyish? Maybe. Old-fashioned? Not really, the cut is contemporary but equally not that of a fashion victim. And either overly casual or rural? Certainly not.*

*Just to make it clear, and in case Foo tries to jump on me here, this is in reference to 'brown is for the farmer' not in relation to the question of brown/tan fresco vs. linen or cotton. smile.gif  

Despite your fine print, you attempted to insult me earlier on the basis of your own miscomprehension.

I have no issue with old-fashioned. In fact, I have no problem with brown suits. I have a brown suit (glen check brown flannel). You are missing the two finer points:

1. Brown suits are more casual than grey or blue suits, and hence much less often appropriate when suits are worn. Takeaway: it is a nice suit to have to wear from time to time, but not a staple. Your wardrobe should be pretty well developed first.

2. Brown fresco is less appropriate than more city, business-oriented colors due to where fresco sits in the spectrum of summer suitings. A brown linen suit, for example, can be a beautiful thing--though its usefulness is highly limited.

There is nothing wrong with being a dandy. There is with not being thoughtful about what you are doing and dressing incoherently.
post #39 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

dressing incoherently.

The guy in the tan suit wrote a great online treatise on dressing coherently, no?

https://web.archive.org/web/20120217213454/http://www.styleforum.net/t/287922/practical-thoughts-on-coherent-combinations-for-beginners
post #40 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post

Would it be off-putting to the average American if someone showed up to a business casual event in a tan fresco suit?

The average American thinks a blazer is a "suit" and has no idea what fresco is. I am not concerned with what random people think and more concerned with what is conceptually good.

Reagan, as a politician, very much cared about what people thought of him. I cannot say to what extent his brown suit entered such a calculus, but the real point to take away is that he is not a good example to follow: (a) his context is too particular to him to be applicable to 99.99% of everybody else, and (b) he was not infallible. His brown suit is not a catastrophe. But it is far from his best look.
post #41 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd617 View Post

The guy in the tan suit wrote a great online treatise on dressing coherently, no?

https://web.archive.org/web/20120217213454/http://www.styleforum.net/t/287922/practical-thoughts-on-coherent-combinations-for-beginners

And you think Vox is infallible? Believe it or not, he is not the first person in the world, or even on the forums, to speak of coherence. He was just the first with such a vast army of sycophants.* You would be making a huge mistake by finding specific examples where Vox, or anybody else, wore something, and assuming they are good simply because you credit him with authority on the subject of clothing. One word: Flusser.

* A knock on the sycophants, not Vox. I like Vox and generally agree with the piece you link to.
post #42 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


Despite your fine print, you attempted to insult me earlier on the basis of your own miscomprehension.
 

 

It wasn't supposed to be entirely serious - more in line of an obviously ludicrous overstatement. I do apologise if you felt insulted, but to be fair, it doesn't seem to take much for you to take umbrage at something, and I don't think that is everyone else's fault. But in this case, I can see that you can't tell when I have my tongue in my cheek. It's a British thing.

 

As for the rest, I'm not going to replay what we've already said. As for the new elements you've introduced, I don't disagree, at least not enough that it's worth fighting over, and my general comments about brown were not directed at you at all (I think I was pretty clear about that, albeit, yes, once again in a humorous way).

post #43 of 122
If you don't mind my asking, Jrd, why do you want a brown/tan suit? Do you plan to wear the jacket and pants separately? How often do you think you'd wear it as a suit or as separates?

I could be way off base here, but I'm guessing you're approaching this as a way to check off two boxes as once: Don't have a brown suit. Don't have a fresco suit. Would like both. Why not get a brown fresco suit?

I make this guess because I've made decisions like that. As you may recall, I have a dk brown fresco blazersuit (3 patch swelled edges). I wanted a dark brown sport coat, and I got the pants thinking I might wear it as a suit. But if I could make that decision again, I'd just get it as a sport coat, which I wear often. Another regret is a light gray crispaire suit I bought. I wanted light gray pants, and I figured I might as well get the suit since I could use another lightweight sportcoat. (I did this despite the usual warnings against light gray sport coats.)

Neither of these was exactly about checking two boxes. But both were compromises motivated by impatience and/or the false economy of saving 10% for a suit vs. sport coat and pants as separates. While I do wear both as suits, I rarely wear either, since I rarely wear suits in general. But also because when I do wear a suit, it's usually more appropriate to wear mid to dark gray or navy.

So in the end, I agree w/ Foo. Only get a tan/brown fresco suit only if you have a bunch of blues and grays (as Vox does) and, I would add, only if you wear suits often, in many environments. Reagan wore that suit about 40 yrs ago, when suits were worn by more men in a larger variety of occasions and environments. Nowadays, men virtually never wear suits when and where a tan or brown suit would be ideal.

If you wanted to check off two boxes, you might get mid-gray fresco suit with some nice heathering. That'll look like sharkskin, even though it won't have the usual weave. You could of course, wear a tan suit purely for fun on the weekend, as Holdfast mentioned. But I wouldn't and I doubt you would either, since you mentioned your concern about how most people would react. Maybe people would find it normal in England, but I can't imagine a time/place in the US where a tan suit would be thought of as normal. Actually, I can imagine one, perhaps: a summer wedding. But in that case a tan cotton, linen, or cotton-linen blend would be better. And a washable version (Haspel, Luxire, for example) would alleviate your concern about cleanliness.

(Of course, being considered normal isn't the only value in life.)
post #44 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

If you don't mind my asking, why do you want a brown/tan suit, Jrd? Do you plan to wear the jacket and pants separately? How often do you think you'd wear it as a suit or as separates?

I'm guessing you're approaching this as a way to check off two boxes as once: Don't have a brown suit. Don't have a fresco suit. Would like both. Why not get a brown fresco suit?

I make this guess because I've made decisions like that. As you may recall, I have a dk brown fresco blazersuit (3 patch swelled edges). I wanted a dark brown sport coat, and I got the pants thinking I might wear it as a suit. But if I could make that decision again, I'd just get it as a sport coat, which I wear often. Another regret is a light gray crispaire suit I bought. I wanted light gray pants, and I figured I might as well get the suit since I could use another lightweight sportcoat. (I did this despite the usual warnings against light gray sport coats.)

Neither of these was exactly about checking two boxes. But both were compromises motivated by impatience and/or the false economy of saving 10% for a suit vs. sport coat and pants as separates. While I do wear both as suits, I rarely wear either, since I rarely wear suits in general. But also because when I do wear a suit, it's usually more appropriate to wear mid to dark gray or navy.

Reagan wore that suit about 40 yrs ago, when suits were worn by more men in a larger variety of occasions and environments. Nowadays, men virtually never wear suits when and where a tan or brown suit would be ideal.

So in the end, I agree w/ Foo. Only get a tan/brown fresco suit only if you have a bunch of blues and grays (as Vox does) and, I would add, only if you wear suits often, in many environments. If you wanted to check off two boxes, you might get mid-gray fresco suit with some nice heathering. That'll look like sharkskin, even though it won't have the usual weave.

You could of course, wear a tan suit purely for fun on the weekend, as Holdfast mentioned. But I wouldn't and I doubt you would either, since you mentioned your concern about how most people would react. Maybe people would find it normal in England, but I can't imagine a time/place in the US where a tan suit would be thought of as normal. Actually, I can imagine one, perhaps: a summer wedding. But in that case a tan cotton/linen/cotton-linen blend would be better. And a washable version (Haspel, for example) would alleviate your concern about cleanliness. (Of course, being considered normal isn't the only value in life.)



I've been fond of the tan suit look for awhile. I owned an RLBL wool once. Loved the color but disliked the shoulder, so I sold it. Some background here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/56404/unfunded-liabilities-a-k-a-the-cloth-thread/8500_50#post_6922874

I intend to wear the tan fresco casually during the summer. Looks great with a blue, black or burgundy tie. It's probably difficult to wear the jacket separately, right?

I think tan gets pretty positive reactions in the US. Khaki pants are popular. It's an accepted color. The J. Crew Ludlow suit in khaki suit has got to be one of the most popular sellers at that store. Also I think khaki is considered more a youthful color than brown.

I suppose I went into this thread favoring the tan suit. The brown slewfoot picture was a look I've had filed away as a possibility. Wanted to see if I could be convinced otherwise.
post #45 of 122
Thread Starter 
I do have a couple summer weddings coming up too. I think a tan open weave wool suit is both a stylish and practical choice for that kind of an event.
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