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Noodles' Good Natured Advice Thread - Page 479

post #7171 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robstrongo View Post

^ This

@Rudals Did the jacket feel tight and restrictive under your armpits? The shoulder width looks fine and I'm guessing that this issue is caused by the armhole being to tight to accommodate the width of your upper arm and possibly also being too tight in your chest. This also would explain why it's only on the right side assuming that is your dominant arm. I could be completely off since I'm only trying to tell by looking at one picture, but this is probably one of the most common problems I have had personally with RTW. The fact that the SA tried to recommend you a 38 when the 40 clearly looks to tight should explain exactly how you ended up in the predicament you are in to begin with.
I felt no tightness in the armpits. SA said the shoulders were too big so he recommended 38R.

Fact is, I believe Monkeyface has pointed this out, my weight gain has contributed to fat buildup in my chest and tummy. I just need to get rid of this....honey moon fat. biggrin.gif

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post #7172 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Apologies for my very poor illustrating talents, but this is what I think is happening in Noodles case:

1. The sleeve on a  jacket with a natural shoulder will 'bump' against his full upper arm, causing a divot to appear.

2. With a roped shoulder, the sleeve's outer edge is a bit more extended, falling smoothly along his upper arm (at least, that's what we hope...)

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 


Edit: I just learned from the post below that the dent we see in your pic is not a divot. Sorry, obviously I'm not familiar enough with the vocabulary, but I think it's still clear what I mean.

From what I have observed the same issue will happen with roped shoulder if it isn't cut properly or the suit gets tight across the shoulder blades (small overarm measurement).

sizing_chest.gif

I started lifting weights and doing serious back exercises and most of my jackets started to divot so I read up on it before taking it to my tailor to fix the ones that could be salvaged.




Divots on a roped shoulder Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
suitcut4.jpg



Tailors on divots
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
http://www.styleforum.net/t/265924/the-tailors-thread-fit-feedback-and-alteration-suggestions/4725#post_7068852
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

Problems with the armhole, problems with the cross-back, problems with the shape of the sleeve relative to the armhole.
Very far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

This, too, is incorrect. Improper fit causes divots, not width or padding or structure. See Frederick Scholte and Tommy Nutter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTCtailor View Post

Shoulder "divots" occur when the jacket is too tight in the chest and/or blades or over the shoulders. The tightness pulls crosswise on the armscye causing it to collapse vertically. There is a resulting excess in length and tightening of the sleevehead which creates the classic divot. Tightness in the blades can possibly be rectified by letting out at the blades. Tightness in the chest is almost impossible to fix.
If you buy OTR and have prominent blades or chest, your options to prevent the divot is probably to go up a size...which unfortunately and sometimes undesirably increases the p2p. If you decrease the p2p on an OTR jacket, the chest circumference usually decreases as well which can create the divot when worn on a body that may have narrow shoulder spread but full in the chest/back. So, if you prefer a closer point to point for a more "Euro" look, you really need to consult with a tailor who can properly measure for it. Above a 42 OTR makes a more euro cut a little hard per size you go up, though somehow poorly fitting suits that are tight in the midsection with "X" shaped drags along with gaping lapels and p2p so close we can see your triceps pressing through your sleeves have become....fashionable..?? ffffuuuu.gif



This is why all you athletes out there are such easy custom clothing prey biggrin.gif

So keep lifting those weights and and keep searching for custom clothes so I can keep my lights on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

This one keeps coming up and most people are mistaken about the causes so here's a detailed look at what causes shoulder divots or dents.


First, the divots have nothing to do with the width of the shoulder- we often hear people making comments about a shoulder being too wide because it is denting but this is not the cause. Look at old photos of Tommy Nutter's work- you can't get much wider than that and they don't dent.


Second, the divots have nothing to do with the amount of shoulder padding; again, you can tons of it and not have dents, and you can have dents on an unpadded shoulder.


THIS is what causes the divots.


The armhole must be cut in the right shape for the body of the wearer. The sleeve is then cut in a very precise relationship to the armhole. In the figure below, the height of the armhole dictates the height of the sleeve cap and the width of the armhole dictates the width of the sleeve cap. We'll say that distance a-b must be equal to e-f and distance c-d must be equal to g-h (for the super geeks, this is not the actual formula but we'll say it is for simplicity).


If you put on a jacket whose armhole has not been cut wide enough for you, or that the chest pulls because it is too tight (or a host of other reasons the armhole may distort) the armhole will contract- it will get wider and shorter. The sleeve cap is now too long and narrow (a-b is shorter than e-f and c-d is wider than g-h) so it pulls from front to back, and the extra length collapses. THIS is what causes the divot.


The only way to try to remedy this is to remove the sleeve and shorten the cap (cut away excess length); this will, in some cases, be sufficient, but in many cases you also need some extra width to the sleeve cap, which you will not be able to gain since there is no outlet for it. This is neither easy nor cheap so your average dry-cleaner alterations tailor may not be able to do it.


The only way to know if a jacket is gong to do this is to try it on. If it dents, try a size up or try a different maker.

post #7173 of 12091
How good is this threak?
post #7174 of 12091
It can be very good, but sometimes it's baldy[1].gif
post #7175 of 12091
I get that nod[1].gif
post #7176 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleav View Post

How good is this threak?


I think it has found a group of like minded, interested folks of similar understanding of and taste in clothes. Not everyone is at the Good Taste level, but everyone is keen. I think it might last a bit longer than the Good Taste thread, given new blood, sometimes old blood, and different samples of topics (some great, some not so, as SB noted).

post #7177 of 12091

Thanks for gathering these Tailor comments,@kulata

 

Somewhere in the recesses of SF, Despos had a nice way of illustrating the basic idea JeffD is explaining and it's how I remember it. Take a disk and a circle with a smaller diameter, e.g. a rubber band. To fit the larger disk into the circle, you have to distort the circle to elongate it so as to accommodate the disk. In a jacket, this makes the arm hole collapse into a divot.

 

You can see this easily in your own jacket. Go to the arm hole and grab it along the two endpoints of the diameter parallel to the ground and slowly pull the hole wider (front and back, essentially what you'd have to do to the rubber band). You will slowly see a divot form.

 

As I said earlier, I don't think that's what is happening in Rudals case but is insufficient accommodation of the overarm measurement (for which you give a figure).

post #7178 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by europrep View Post


What color? Do you have any pics after you put some miles on them? Thanks

Snuff. Actually picked them up after seeing photos of your doeskin pair. I'll take some pics this week, took them drinking yesterday and they need some scrubbing. 

post #7179 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

It can be very good, but sometimes it's baldy[1].gif
I am to blame for the latter.
I know I just crank out dumb questions and thoughts. But I'll make a good decision very soon and turn the corner on suits. I can definitely tone myself down. But I hope others step it up. This thread is lucky to have regulars who are very helpful. I don't have to name them but you know who you are.
post #7180 of 12091
My new Sartoria Partenopea suit arrived today! It fits pretty much perfectly and the grey herringbone fabric is beautiful! I'll post a fitpic later, as I'm doubting whether to surpress the waist a little.

A pair of black cap toe Carminas arrived at the same time, and I'm very impressed with the quality. My CBD wardrobe is nearing completion, but I'm still waiting for some Luxire hidden BD shirts to arrive, and then I'm done with shopping for a while.
post #7181 of 12091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post

My new Sartoria Partenopea suit arrived today! It fits pretty much perfectly and the grey herringbone fabric is beautiful! I'll post a fitpic later, as I'm doubting whether to surpress the waist a little.

A pair of black cap toe Carminas arrived at the same time, and I'm very impressed with the quality. My CBD wardrobe is nearing completion, but I'm still waiting for some Luxire hidden BD shirts to arrive, and then I'm done with shopping for a while.

 

Let's see the pictures!

post #7182 of 12091
Okay.
The suit we can await on but what about the Carminas? How do they compare to other notible shoemakers?
post #7183 of 12091
I don't have much experience with the really high end (EG, etc.) shoes besides trying them on in store, but the finishing seems to be on par with the likes of Alfred Sargent, and the leather is very nice as well. They're definitely punching above their weight when you're looking at the price/quality ratio. I'd put them slightly above C&J because of that, especially with the free shipping deal that's going on at the moment.
post #7184 of 12091
I think Carmina stand toe to toe (no pun intended) with some of the higher end shoemakers - I really think EG are pretty overrated/overpriced as are some others.

At the very least, they aren't 2.5-3x better quality to justify 2.5-3x higher price.
post #7185 of 12091

I've had C&J benchgrade and handgrade.  I think Carmina is better quality wise than benchgrade and at the same level as handgrade.

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