That I'm not sure. My wife was in Italy earlier this year and the only thing she reported was that it is nearly impossible to be a vegetarian there.
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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2430post #36437 of 376626/9/16 at 8:19am
pasta is, and was, the main serving in Italy :)))
not a huge fan of pasta, personally.
I think it's the cost/practicability issue here in Europe. In other words, the item must have a certain value attached to it (material value, for collectors, cultural as old books) to justify to offer it to someone else. You can get really nice old books or pick them up for free in the local public library, since it's deemed as appropriate to pass them on.
Italians use lots of vegetables for cooking.
Austria and Germany on the other hand,those people cannot cook without meat, that's for sure.post #36438 of 376626/9/16 at 8:21amQuote:
This is true of most of the world, except perhaps India and certain Southeast Asian countries. American vegetarianism is indeed a special privilege.
Expecting the cuisine of other places to adapt to our needs may be a form of exceptionalism. When in Rome...
Not singling out your wife. She seems like a nice lady.post #36439 of 376626/9/16 at 8:28am
Eel is in season and I recently went to a restaurant where (quite unexpectedly) live eels were brought out of the tank and skewered, drained, and filleted before my eyes, rather than in the kitchen. (I can assure you that this bit of theater is by no means normal) I sure like eel, but seeing this made me blue in the face. I felt like Upton Sinclair in The Jungle. One thing is the Mediterranean salt-baked fish, brought to the table whole on a cart, the crust cracked, and the fish neatly filleted. That is fine and dandy. But witnessing mortal battle with eels the size of baseball bats is another matter entirely.post #36440 of 376626/9/16 at 8:28am
Well, she wasn't exactly expecting anyone to do anything. Just commenting on the situation. I also don't think vegetarianism is a privilege, necessarily. On the contrary, the massive amount of meat we have available to us today show how privileged modern humans are. In previous eras a great many places ate little meat because of its cost and scarcity, which makes sense because if you are living in an agricultural society most of your cows and other animals are more valuable alive than dead.post #36441 of 376626/9/16 at 8:31amQuote:Originally Posted by sprout2
Eel is in season and I recently went to a restaurant where (quite unexpectedly) live eels were brought out of the tank and skewered, drained, and filleted before my eyes, rather than in the kitchen. (I can assure you that this bit of theater is by no means normal) I sure like eel, but seeing this made me blue in the face. I felt like Upton Sinclair in The Jungle. One thing is the Mediterranean salt-baked fish, brought to the table whole on a cart, the crust cracked, and the fish neatly filleted. That is fine and dandy. But witnessing mortal battle with eels the size of baseball bats is another matter entirely.
I guess that's just honesty. I don't need to see the cow being slaughtered for my steak, but it is valuable to understand the reality of what you eat. This is why I advocate eating wild game whenever possible. You know that in that case the animal lived a natural life outside cramped pens or infested coops.post #36442 of 376626/9/16 at 8:36amQuote:
I feel your pain. I'm so sick of buying/ordering and hoping shoes fit.post #36443 of 376626/9/16 at 8:37amQuote:
Sorry, I was saying it in a playful manner. Maybe a smiley emoticon should have been added.
The word JAP to me is used to refer to the terrible war criminals who committed unspeakable acts before and during WWII. You're right in saying that I hate the Japanese people for what they have done in the past to my people. Western people just have not been educated enough on what the Japs did to civilians in the surrounding countries. Israel and Germany have done a great job to expose and educate people on what acts the Nazis did but most Westerners are clueless to as to what the Japs did.Quote:
I disagree. The word Jap to me is the same as the word Nazi. You, an American, may consider that offensive so that's your problem.post #36444 of 376626/9/16 at 8:40am
Yes and no. Like other things (sex, death, politics), we rely on a bit of willful ignorance in order to get by. If most of us today, who are squeamish of needles in the doctor's office, had to go hunt wild game with axes, humanity would extinguish. We would be too busy barfing by the side of the road. Anyway, it was a good, wild-eyed moment. Those are valuable to have, for the reasons you list above.
I tried being a vegan for 5 years against the advice of my doctor. I have a problematic metabolism where I need large doses of complex, slowly digestible protein frequently or I become faint. Unfortunately, soybean bricks only get me halway there.
As you mentioned, the agricultural argument is complex -- too complex to explain to a local village chef with no education when you want your food forensically checked for trace animal parts. To me, that is asking too much of your host. It's another thing entirely if you just want to be pointed in the direction of the nearest grocery store stocking granola bars (though that might be hard to find, too). But when you're having food made for you, I think it also introduces the moral dilemma of how much you can ask of someone serving you. This should not be lost on an audience that hails artisanal makers.
I knew a woman in Japan who insisted on only eating peanut butter because everything down to the broth contains fish ingredients. I understand her position, but this ultimately came across as a huge insult to anyone and everyone around her -- seeming to say, I reject your cuisine. That is a tough tightrope to walk when you're overseas.post #36445 of 376626/9/16 at 8:44amQuote:Originally Posted by The Noodles
Sorry, I was saying it in a playful manner. Maybe a smiley emoticon should have been added.
The word JAP to me is used to refer to the terrible war criminals who committed unspeakable acts before and during WWII. You're right in saying that I hate the Japanese people for what they have done in the past to my people. Western people just have not been educated enough on what the Japs did to civilians in the surrounding countries. Israel and Germany have done a great job to expose and educate people on what acts the Nazis did but most Westerners are clueless to as to what the Japs did.
I agree with everything you say -- half-assed pseudo apologies by Japan are unacceptable -- but not the way you say it. Slurs have no place in conversation, since they paint entire groups of people in wide strokes.post #36446 of 376626/9/16 at 8:45am
True. I'm not advocating that everyone go out and hunt their own food, although if you do that then I applaud you. Nor do I always eat wild game myself. It's a give and take. I try to tend toward certain behaviors that I find to be ethical, but I also don't feel too terrible about myself when I inevitably fail at it. It's fine. My wife also understands these things. She just accepts that when we go out to eat she will have to bend some of her rules. I mean, living as a vegan is hard enough without beating yourself up when things go awry. If you have a physical situation, as you mentioned, you simply have to do what is best for your health. That's just Zen.
Slightly off topic, but I recently read something that named Indians as the worst travelers in the world partly because they tend to be so snobbish and un-adventurous with food when abroad.post #36447 of 376626/9/16 at 8:49amQuote:
I was not going to continue on the topic and continue to use the word but V3 chimed in and I had to explain. I am done and yet another Noodles' trolling is over.post #36448 of 376626/9/16 at 8:58amQuote:
Recent episode from Things Overheard at Fine Japanese Dining Establishments
<American couple enters, strong perfume permeats the room>
**Perfume is an instant no-no with Japanese cuisine, in case you were wondering
"Martha, look at this menu! Why are there so many courses?"
"I know, Tom! Can't we just get one thing?"
"And what are these 'Japanese pickles?'"
"Nevermind pickles, get a load of this: sea cucumber! I'll be damned if I'm eating that."
"Oh, great -- there's tofu, too. You know I hate tofu."
"Soy, soy, and more soy. Hey, at least they have salmon."
<20 minutes of debate go by>
"OK, let's order"
"We don't want these courses. We just want the following:
"Salmon sushi, two steaks, and ice cream."
At this point your gentle author does this:post #36449 of 376626/9/16 at 9:28am
Noodles has now been banned for good, from his own thread. No, you can't use racial slurs. And no, I don't care for any explanations. Someone calls you out on it, you say "sorry" and hope the people go light on you. You do not defend your use, and then say "Ha, trolled you." So, bye.
Incidentally, my grandmother was in a Japanese internment camp for part of WWII, and I am also of Chinese ethnicity.post #36450 of 376626/9/16 at 9:30am
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