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post #34681 of 37396

Interesting topic and this is based on my experience from what I’ve seen. This whole MBA debate really depends on the individual and the specific situation.  

 

An MBA can be useful depending on the situation and the return on investment is definitely there if you have the correct strategy. An MBA program is a great platform for individuals to transition into other career paths – startups, venture capital etc… Just that the MBA program has to be top-tiered.

 

From what I’ve seen, taking online courses or enrolling in lesser-known MBA programs don’t generally don’t lead to higher salaries. If you want to be an accountant, then the MBA will not add much value.  A one-year master program (taken right after your undergraduate program) will suffice.  However, if an accountant wants to change careers, then a strong program makes a lot of sense. I know of one public accountant who went for his MBA and now works in M&A – the pay and subsequent opportunities are vastly different, so it was very much worth it for him.    

post #34682 of 37396

This is interesting. My wife is in business at what I would call the upper levels. She went to a small private school and got a good MBA, albeit from a lesser known institution. She has consistently outpaced her peers primarily because of the quality of her work. It seems to me that a lot of companies out there simply want to ensure that people at a certain level have the education, and that it's not from somewhere like University of Phoenix. Other than that, it's a matter of "What have you done for us?"  

 

ETA: Of course, things might be entirely different for people with MBAs from Yale or Harvard.

post #34683 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post




The only situation where I can imagine that happening is a bet the company case with eight figures exposure and a partner billing out at $800 an hour or more.  Apart from that, this kind of billing hasn't been tolerated for at least 10 or more years.

It does happen in some really expensive corporate work as well. The client won't tolerate it if it smells fishy, but if they know the senior partner is doing a lot of work that they want senior partners doing, I think detailed timekeeping can slide (i.e. they don't really care if 8 hours = 3 hour call with client, 1 hour meeting with associates and 4 hours of looking at documents or some other mix as long as they know it's really 8 hours of work). Also depends on whether the client is paying for the legal work or whether they're turning the bill over to another entity to pay.
post #34684 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by JezeC View Post


From what I’ve seen, taking online courses or enrolling in lesser-known MBA programs don’t generally don’t lead to higher salaries. If you want to be an accountant, then the MBA will not add much value.  A one-year master program (taken right after your undergraduate program) will suffice.  However, if an accountant wants to change careers, then a strong program makes a lot of sense. I know of one public accountant who went for his MBA and now works in M&A – the pay and subsequent opportunities are vastly different, so it was very much worth it for him.    

Yeah. MBAs are great if you want to change careers or are in the sort of industry where it's expected and often paid for (thinking mostly banking / PE / consulting). One of my bosses in my first job spent 6 years in accounting (3 at a Big 4 (or whatever it was back then) and 3 in house) and transitioned to investment management. Definitely paid off for him. Most people I know in accounting did a masters or equivalent coursework before entering the workforce to get the academic requirements for the CPA met. None that stayed in accounting went for an MBA, though a few that shifted careers did.
post #34685 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


It does happen in some really expensive corporate work as well. The client won't tolerate it if it smells fishy, but if they know the senior partner is doing a lot of work that they want senior partners doing, I think detailed timekeeping can slide (i.e. they don't really care if 8 hours = 3 hour call with client, 1 hour meeting with associates and 4 hours of looking at documents or some other mix as long as they know it's really 8 hours of work). Also depends on whether the client is paying for the legal work or whether they're turning the bill over to another entity to pay.

 

You're right, there is a transactional side to what I described as well, and it's when the stakes are high enough that no one is going to question it because they already know the partner is spending full days on the case.

post #34686 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Shoes1 View Post

You're right, there is a transactional side to what I described as well, and it's when the stakes are high enough that no one is going to question it because they already know the partner is spending full days on the case.

Back in the days, in my field there was a famous saying "no body got fired for buying IBM" (it's obvious who made it up).

Likewise, I can imagine someone getting good sleep at night if he paid senior partner instead of associate for getting the job done. Even if things go wrong, well...
post #34687 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

This is interesting. My wife is in business at what I would call the upper levels. She went to a small private school and got a good MBA, albeit from a lesser known institution. She has consistently outpaced her peers primarily because of the quality of her work. It seems to me that a lot of companies out there simply want to ensure that people at a certain level have the education, and that it's not from somewhere like University of Phoenix. Other than that, it's a matter of "What have you done for us?"  

ETA: Of course, things might be entirely different for people with MBAs from Yale or Harvard.
Speaking as a former director of accounting & audit (oh~ show off!) the quality of work output trumped all if you are already an employee. The crappy thing is that I would look at the school and then experience when I was hiring. If the school sucked, then I looked at experience. Looking at resumes sucks but a nice school and a nice degree is what we go by. But as we all know it, book smart people do not always turn out work smart employees. I was so disinterested in academia and never took notes in class. Just read textbooks and took exams.
post #34688 of 37396

I think MBA is great for people accomplished in their primary field that feel they need broader view of the organization or business they're in. When I took MBA I was disappointed by many people who were obviously mediocre in their field and were seeing MBA as a wild card to career progress. Most of their management careers were and still are mediocre, with few exceptions. MBA will give you some knowledge and understanding, but will not place a new head on your shoulders, or give you ability to solve complex problems in the real world.

 

Now, I strongly believe that decent old school university education can, and should, give you exactly that, no matter the field of study. I was studying old school 5-year Electrical Engineering - first almost three years were only mathematics, pure theory, and problem solving. Now that teaches you some thinking. Many folks from my class went on to do something completely different after graduation. Quite a few of them ended up in finance, one is even a CFO. The best businessman I ever worked with (was my client) is a COO in a bank. Although he has an MBA, his B.Sc. was in mechanical engineering :)

 

Unfortunately, universities now days tend to teach "useful skills", "hands-on"... and even my school is not what it used to be (fell victim of "Bologna education system" - probably some of the European members know what I'm talking about).

post #34689 of 37396

@gs77, you didn't go to McMaster, did you?

 

@The Noodles, maybe it's a symptom of the industry differences, but I got the impression that at my wife's work they looked first at experience and accomplishments, then looked at education to make the person wasn't disqualified for a role by company policy. I could be completely wrong, though. We try not to talk too much shop at home.

post #34690 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

@gs77
, you didn't go to McMaster, did you?

@The Noodles
, maybe it's a symptom of the industry differences, but I got the impression that at my wife's work they looked first at experience and accomplishments, then looked at education to make the person wasn't disqualified for a role by company policy. I could be completely wrong, though. We try not to talk too much shop at home.

No, I am new to Canada. It was all back home in Belgrade. University of Belgrade...
Although I would opt for Waterloo.
post #34691 of 37396
I climbed that corporate bull sh!t ladder and saw too much politics so I jumped off that bull sh!t ladder. The higher you go, it is more who you know and not how good you are. I sound too bitter~
post #34692 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs77 View Post

Unfortunately, universities now days tend to teach "useful skills", "hands-on"... and even my school is not what it used to be (fell victim of "Bologna education system" - probably some of the European members know what I'm talking about).

I think that today, with limited exceptions, if you want to get a good education in undergraduate school, your required reading for classes should account for no more than half of your total reading. Unless you're studying engineering, math or hard sciences, there just isn't that much academic rigor at a lot of places.
post #34693 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


your required reading for classes should account for no more than half of your total reading.

 

Good luck getting an 18 year old to buy into that.

post #34694 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Good luck getting an 18 year old to buy into that.

Agreed. This is partly why most kids leave college with mediocre educations and a high degree of ignorance.
post #34695 of 37396

Too true.

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