Nah, he doesn't drink.
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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2311post #34652 of 375363/2/16 at 8:47pm
I have a very different experience than most of you. Most of the PhDs I've met are very amiable and intelligent people. They don't seem at all aloof or elitist either, talking to me, a non academic. I mean, they are from Cambridge too, which you'd assume is associated with some of the most prestige.post #34653 of 375363/2/16 at 8:50pmQuote:Originally Posted by Claghorn
Again, I'd like to gloat about the job market and pay for management professors. And I'm basically a sociologist with a bit of Econ and psych thrown in. Neener neener, gloat gloat.
Though explaining you can get a PhD management generally elicits scoffs. Also, this is a field where our teaching actually makes students worse people (MBA students demonstrate less pro-social and altruistic behaviors after completing an MBA program than before they entered it). Liberal arts expand the mind. The social sciences expands our understanding. The hard sciences expands our knowledge. Business just, uh, expands itself.
Re: titles. After working at a research university for 15 or so years, my dream job is to teach at Earlham, where professors are all in a first name basis with students due to the Quaker influence.
Early on in library school (talk about a field that elicits scoffs at the notion of needing a Masters degree, let alone earning a PhD) I met a woman who had done her undergrad at Earlham.
She waspost #34654 of 375363/2/16 at 8:57pm
Of courseQuote:Originally Posted by Isolation
I have a very different experience than most of you. Most of the PhDs I've met are very amiable and intelligent people. They don't seem at all aloof or elitist either, talking to me, a non academic. I mean, they are from Cambridge too, which you'd assume is associated with some of the most prestige.
You should see how they act toward one another.
In all truth you are quite right. I don't think anyone is saying there aren't good and bad apples in every profession. Academics, it seems to me, simply has an image (among those who favor it) as a noble, disinterested, truth seeking institution. On its best days this is what it is. Not surprisingly it has its bad side too. The side that is vain, aloof, and self destructively competitive. On its worst days this is what it is. It's easy to complain about the negative people, but I imagine that most of us have been fortunate enough to have more than a few good influences in our time at university. I know I have. These are people for whom the term "scholar" doesn't begin to do justice.
Incidentally, one of my mentors did his doctoral work at Cambridge as well as his undergrad at Yale and he is one of the most humble persons I know.post #34655 of 375363/2/16 at 9:07pmThread StarterQuote:Originally Posted by Caustic Man
When you approach work, education, and all the titles that go with it with a playfulness all those pretensions can simply fall away. I suppose that is something like what the Society of Friends was getting at. The Quakers were good for something other than oats after all.
They were pretty much the first abolitionists in the UK and the US and largely responsible for movements in both countries. They opened up the world's first modern mental asylum (where patients were treated as patients and not inmates). Also responsible for the world's first prison reform laws. They were some of the earliest feminists and heavily involving in early feminists movements in the US (later ones too. Susan B. Anthony was a Quaker). And depending on your political view, this last bit might not be a good thing, but Quakers were performing (unrecognized by the government) same sex wedding ceremonies since at least the 80s.
I......may have been raised Quaker.
The first name thing is just because equality is a big part of Quakerism and so they eschew status symbols like titles.post #34656 of 375363/2/16 at 9:10pmQuote:
I'm too fond if Michel Foucault to think this turned out well for us all. I would also make a differentiation between the kind of "feminism" that the Quakers practiced and its modern variant, but other than that... yes, very good.post #34657 of 375363/2/16 at 9:10pm
I was with my spouse in a room of 4 other PhD students, I didn't have too much to contribute when they were getting into more academic stuff, but they were a lot more accommodating than would have expected, I think. They don't seem any more aloof than experts in any field, if anything, they seem more aware of the reputation of their kind. We talked about all sorts of things, I think partially because they know I'm not in academia and they were kind of enough to move the discussion now and then away from their subjects, which I thought was both thoughtful and aware, and also the fact that we had quite good conversation out of it showed they were capable out of their expertise as well. Anyway, I have no doubts these are some of the better academics out of there, otherwise I would not have been introduced to begin with, but I do want to show this picture of it as well.
I had to grow out of that "noble, disinterested, truth seeking" nihilist intellectual phase as well (pretentious as fuck 14 year old I know) so I can relate, but I tend to think the smartest of people are not smart only in their subject, but also have an open mind. I mean, not always, but there's more correlation to it, I think, than people give it credit for. Yeah sure, you have people who get by through gimmicky intelligence, but those with truly a deep capability of understanding can see beyond their subject matter I think.
At least with the intellectual people I know, intellectualism for the sake of it is universally understood as shallow and pretentious, and even though, yeah of course everyone gets caught up in it now and then, there's a lot more awareness, amongst smart people, that that stuff is unflattering. At the very least, if you're talking about nihilism, then you're aware that there's no logic in thinking logic and intellectualism has more value, so taking pride in it makes no sense, and on a human level, you must also realize that the way we define intelligence is deeply rooted in problematic culture and history, so any of that haughty behaviour does nothing but make you pretentious.
Arguably though these are things humanities PhDs are more expected to be aware of, though I've met people in hard sciences too who are very intelligent in these ways.post #34658 of 375363/2/16 at 9:13pmpost #34659 of 375363/2/16 at 9:14pmpost #34660 of 375363/2/16 at 9:14pmpost #34661 of 375363/2/16 at 9:18pmpost #34662 of 375363/3/16 at 5:52ampost #34663 of 375363/3/16 at 6:22ampost #34664 of 375363/3/16 at 6:42ampost #34665 of 375363/3/16 at 7:12amQuote:
If I ever get an MBA, I promise you I will never put it after my name willingly. I don't put JD or Esq. after it now, so there's no way in hell I'd do it with an MBA. Plus I majored in finance and took pretty much all the other business classes as an undergraduate, so an MBA is pretty much pointless (I did the whole going out 5 nights a week thing already in grad school; also, nothing like beer at lunch with friends between classes).
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