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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2278

post #34156 of 37396
1. I believe Veni's post was Kent Wang's. Excellent value for the price.
2. I similarly do not understand the anti-wholecut vibe. I think they're lovely and would advocate them above all, especially for a black tie event.
post #34157 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgereghty View Post

1. I believe Veni's post was Kent Wang's. Excellent value for the price.
2. I similarly do not understand the anti-wholecut vibe. I think they're lovely and would advocate them above all, especially for a black tie event.


I think the anti whole cut vibe is more a tradition thing (as they are a relatively modern invention, compared to the others). Whole cuts also tend to crease a bit more, and in my experience stretch out more. (I do like wholecuts though, but if you're going for what is traditionally called for, the 'order of formality' is opera pumps/plaintoe/captoe)


Edited by venividivicibj - 2/14/16 at 8:51am
post #34158 of 37396
I personally think a nice pair of wholecuts look fantastic. Vass are currently making me a pair in shell Bordeaux, can't wait!
post #34159 of 37396
When deciding between cap toes vs whole-cuts for a black tie, I opted for the cap toes. The whole cuts are certainly more formal, but a black cap toes is more versatile. If you already have a black cap toe, then a whole-cut would be a nice addition. I did not have a respectable black cap toe so I opted for a CJ Audley. Very happy with the purchase.
post #34160 of 37396
I would like to be associated with the words of the last speaker nod[1].gif
post #34161 of 37396

If you guys want to see black cap toes - wurger owns about ten of them, all by different makers (write-ups included)

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/362365/the-quintessential-dress-shoe-black-cap-toe-oxford/0_50

post #34162 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainTohm View Post

This will be my first pair of wholecuts (also, one of my first two Carmina's simultaneously ordered) and I'd like some good-natured feedback. Will the suede make them casual enough they can be worn with an odd jacket look?

https://thearmoury.com/product/carmina-inca-80169-suede-wholecut-oxford?Color=Brown

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heldentenor View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainTohm View Post

This will be my first pair of wholecuts (also, one of my first two Carmina's simultaneously ordered) and I'd like some good-natured feedback. Will the suede make them casual enough they can be worn with an odd jacket look?

https://thearmoury.com/product/carmina-inca-80169-suede-wholecut-oxford?Color=Brown

 

Wholecuts are divisive (some consider them neither fish nor fowl), but I like those quite a bit and could see them pairing well with sportcoats or more casual suits.  I bet they'd really shine in early spring and early autumn since they invoke an in-between seasons vibe.    

 

As heldentenor indicated, wholecuts are divisive.

 

A few years ago I think it was either Manton, Vox, or both (I can’t recall the specifics) who addressed the question of where wholecuts fall in the spectrum of formality.    While it was acknowledged that in general the more decoration is added to a shoe the less formal it becomes, wholecuts were held to be an exception. 

 

The argument advanced was that anything that looks novel attracts attention and is thus de facto a departure from formality, and therefore wholecuts are less dressy than cap toes (if I recall correctly the discussion was about wearing them with lounge suits, which is an important qualifier).   This seems exactly right to me, since it relativizes the effect to historical time and place (I assume we can all agree that the proposition “wholecuts are less formal than cap toes” is not an eternal verity and must be relativized to something.)

 

You’re right, however, that suede changes the calculus dramatically.  I personally wouldn’t wear them with tweed, for example, but I can imagine some people making them work with an ensemble that is, like the shoes, a bit ‘fashion forward’.

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

post #34163 of 37396
I have black wholecuts. Sleek, formal, great with navy/grey suits and the occasional black tie. As long as they're not blobby or ugly, go for it. Although captoes are more versatile, wholecuts can be a nice secondary option.
post #34164 of 37396
Thanks for the advice everyone (and for the typically fascinating epistemological discussion of captoes vs wholecuts)
post #34165 of 37396
I have black wholecuts. The right purchase, if mindful of fit/last etc become a great option.



Black suede too nod[1].gif
post #34166 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidyut View Post

I tried on some Brooks Brothers suits/suit-jackets yesterday. Could I get a critique on the fit please?
The salesperson recommended a size 40, I later talked to the tailor who recommended one size up. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Suit 1, size 40R - tried only the jacket. Two vents










Suit 2, size 40R - tried only the jacket. Center vent:










Suit 3, size 41R  (one size up):




















Number 2 fits the best of the lot.
post #34167 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by heldentenor View Post
 

How deeply have you read up on the breaking-in (maybe better described as "foot-breaking") process for calf Meermins, Ac2?  I have a pair of their chukkas that haven't caused my feet any problems, but many members have posted of bad experiences in the Meermin thread.

 

[...]

 

 

Many thanks for reminding me of this.    As a (now sadly former) rider I have an unconscious tendency to ignore complaints about breaking in shoes.   People don’t know what pain is until they break in a pair of new dress boots:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

But you’re quite right; it’s a factor worth considering.  Thanks again.

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

post #34168 of 37396
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post


The argument advanced was that anything that looks novel attracts attention and is thus de facto a departure from formality, and therefore wholecuts are less dressy than cap toes (if I recall correctly the discussion was about wearing them with lounge suits, which is an important qualifier).   This seems exactly right to me, since it relativizes the effect to historical time and place (I assume we can all agree that the proposition “wholecuts are less formal than cap toes” is not an eternal verity and must be relativized to something.)

But, and you've sort of implicitly indicated this, there is a tautological element to this argument. I could point to opera pumps as very formal and very novel. To which someone can say they aren't novel to their context. Which is a formal context (are operas formal? They get a midnight peak lapel suit from me. At most. Hate tuxedos. I'm a philistine).

So something which isn't novel in a formal context is formal.

(Black) Whole cuts look more formal to me. At least they do new. After a few wears, I just don't like the way they look at all.
post #34169 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veremund View Post

Number 2 fits the best of the lot.

Many thanks. I'm considering between just buying this or going with something M2M. I've never had suits made to measure before. Do you think there's enough to be addressed that will make M2M significantly better? I was thinking of a budget of about USD1-1.5K, so these fit very well within that (maybe even at the lower end of that with discounts). Writing about budget only to indicate that USD3k or more bespoke tailored suit is not really the alternative. Something like Kent Wang's suits maybe are an alternative.
post #34170 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post


The argument advanced was that anything that looks novel attracts attention and is thus de facto a departure from formality, and therefore wholecuts are less dressy than cap toes (if I recall correctly the discussion was about wearing them with lounge suits, which is an important qualifier).   This seems exactly right to me, since it relativizes the effect to historical time and place (I assume we can all agree that the proposition “wholecuts are less formal than cap toes” is not an eternal verity and must be relativized to something.)

But, and you've sort of implicitly indicated this, there is a tautological element to this argument. I could point to opera pumps as very formal and very novel. To which someone can say they aren't novel to their context. [...]

 

I think we agree.  The point was that they were (and still are, for some) novel in the context of a lounge suit.  And of course novelty by definition diminishes with time and accumulated familiarity, which is one reason why people have such different reactions to wholecuts, I suspect.

 

Cheers,

 

Ac

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