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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2189

post #32821 of 37536
Originally Posted by Academic2 View Post


Or derbies, bluchers, or ...



For what it’s worth, I’m a ‘baby boomer’ who grew up in the American northeast, and I dressed in the usual prep-style when in high school.  I certainly had a pair of penny loafers back then, though neither I nor any of my classmates wore them without socks as far as I can recall, and I don’t think I wore them with a suit either (though I rarely wore suits back then anyway).


That said, I don’t think I’ve owned a pair of loafers since I was in my 20s.


As an academic I suspect I’m part of the ‘eastern establishment’ by definition, if not, perhaps, as firmly entrenched a part of it as I would be if I were, say, a banker.


There's a lot of regional diversity not only with regard to whether or not one should wear loafers with a suit, but also whether or not it's appropriate to wear them without socks.  In my experience loafers without socks aren’t all that unusual in Italy in the summer.  I’ve also been told that they’re commonly seen in the south of France as well.  I can’t testify from experience regarding the latter, though I’m sure that others here,  @EFV perhaps, can.  Out of curiosity, how do people feel about the sockless look? 






When wearing loafers with a jacket (suit or odd jacket) I always wear socks...but there are summer occasions with a linen shirt for example where loafers sans socks are worn. 


But then you are getting into different styles of loafers. I would never wear a cordovan loafer sockless...whether tassel or penny. But a pair of Italian styled loafers without socks in a relaxed environment is acceptable. I also wear a pair of navy gucci horse-bit loafers (goodness gracious what a confession!) without socks in the summer...but I'm not one of the many men who wear their black gucci horsebits with their suits every day of the week.

post #32822 of 37536

If sockless, I would be wearing espadrilles and truly casual clothing.

post #32823 of 37536
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

I have a pretty high sport coat to suit ratio, and I rarely wear my loafers. I generally will wear them if I've arrived home and need to leave again for a quick errand.


You are weird


I come home, change out of my track suit, and put on a DB suit and captoes to go buy milk.

Edited by sprout2 - 12/17/15 at 9:07pm
post #32824 of 37536
Originally Posted by colco View Post

Isolation seems to prefer a more....artistic approach to posting fit pics.

post #32825 of 37536
Not necessarily good art mind you.
post #32826 of 37536

@Isolation , in some ways we are a world apart in sensibilities and personal identity.  But I admire you for having the courage of your convictions, and I think the style you've adopted is working for you very well.  And you're right about the casual misogyny that inflects these, and many other male-dominated, discussions from time to time.  It takes some balls (how's that for a chauvinistic slip?) to speak up when you know many will find what you say irritating and incomprehensible.  The measure of a man (again) is his doing the right thing when everyone else thinks it's wrong.


Just thought I'd get that off my chest - after catching up on twenty pages of this a couple of days ago.


Now, back to the fray.  Sockless?  Fuck no.  Except:


- with shorts, which in turn are only really appropriate for beaches and boats in my book, or at least being next to beaches and boats.

- with a guayabera (is that what they're called?) and linen trousers, possibly while closing a large transaction for prohibited substances in a remote but luxurious farmhouse, or on a yacht near Miami.


I think I've worn loafers (burgundy Prince Alberts) with a cream linen suit, once.  I would wear brown suede loafers with that, maybe, if I had any.  I would definitely wear them with linens and chinos and an open shirt, and do with all kinds of loafers.  I have word cordovan tassels with a "Cali tux" or a tweed jacket and flannels.  


But with a business suit, no.  Whatever they do in Mass. or Wall Street.  I met a Swiss bloke once who was wearing some elegant Italian tasseks with his business suit and he looked very sharp.  And he was the CEO of an oil company and my client at the time, so my disposition was naturally favourable.  I think it suits some better than others.  But a banker in pinstripes needs an oxford, not an Allen Edmonds beefroll.


I do get Chelsea boots, and I like chukkas, but I don't see either as appropriate for a business suit.  It just depends on the suit.  If you're wearing a slim brown flannel with skinny lapels or a colourful tweed with hacking pockets, and generally going for a retro Mod or contemporary iGent thing, then I'm sure the Chelseas fly just fine.  But for a work suit, I can't see any reason to wear them over an oxford shoe - or an oxford boot if you want something more protective or just like the boot style.  

post #32827 of 37536
mimo, while I am heartened by your use of the term, I offer this gentle encouragement to employ its full and proper form: TASSEKS.
post #32828 of 37536
Wow, what more can be said about tassell?? I am sure all you talk about depends of what country (or part of that country) you grew up in. Someones talked about Italy and south of France but I am sure is almost the whole southern Europe (include here Portugal, Spain, Greece, even Switzerland...) area that wear tassel loafers or penny lafers with no socks in the summer (not with suits though, in just plain casual clothing or SC+trousers). Something coming from decades ago, so that would make it a "classic" would it not? Something that stands the test of time is a classic, whether one aproves or not (just like a leather jacket, a pair of black RayBan Wayfarers, etc).

Maybe in the US is an abomination using tassells with no socks (even though I am pretty sure most men wear invisible socks -at least 100% of the ones I know, do, including myself), but we too find other things used in other countries horrendous.
post #32829 of 37536

When you guys are saying sockless, do you mean actually sockless? or no-show socks

post #32830 of 37536
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

When you guys are saying sockless, do you mean actually sockless? or no-show socks

with unlined shoes no socks.  

post #32831 of 37536
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

When you guys are saying sockless, do you mean actually sockless? or no-show socks

I wear no show socks most of the summer with most outfits (obviously not with suits for meetings, etc...). My feet stink too much to not wear socks at all.
post #32832 of 37536
Originally Posted by europrep View Post

I wear no show socks most of the summer with most outfits (obviously not with suits for meetings, etc...). My feet stink too much to not wear socks at all.

This is why I wear no show socks - that and my feet sweat a lot

post #32833 of 37536
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

When you guys are saying sockless, do you mean actually sockless? or no-show socks

Espadrilles call for no socks at all, of course... other than that, I usually wear invisible socks. Never with a suit, of course (but I have not seen that anywhere "in person", in tumblr and IG, a lot of times but never in real life). 

post #32834 of 37536
No-show socks
post #32835 of 37536

Please enjoy the following tale of woe entitled "On Alterations: A Warning," consisting of my lessons learned that may benefit other newbies like myself and anyone similarly interested in the pitfalls and tribulations I encountered recently. I'll spoiler it to protect the flow of this thread (wouldn't want it to be pulled off topic) and my own dignity as well.


On Alterations: A Warning (Click to show)

Contrary to my join date, I am still new to the classic menswear game. I didn't come from a family that knew the rules of clothing or had a father that could pass on this information to me. I work for a bank, and while not the most conservative bank, I still wear suits every day. I have a few that I bought prior to my learning phase that are too short, tight, and slim to be considered business appropriate, but I also don't have the money to replace them all. I also recently bought a Corneliani suit from the B&S thread here (thanks @dreamspace) that needed some work. I figured I could take care of the new suit, and alter the older suits at least enough to be wearable, even if rarely.


As has been discussed here frequently, Florida is a wasteland for people interested in dressing in accordance with the taste of the forum. I have used a handful of tailors in my local area with bad results, so I looked around for somebody more respectable, and found a man about 30 minutes away from me that sounded like the real deal. I gathered up the new Corneliani, two older suits, and one $10 eBayed sports coat that I was hoping to use as a template for Luxire once the fit was dialed in.


I informed him of my wishes: the Corneliani was new to me and is something I intended to wear frequently. It needed the pants hemmed with a cuff, the jacket sleeves shortened and the jacket length shortened. The other two suits were minutes away from being donated, but if they could be salvaged, I would like them let out to wear as alternates or if my primary charcoal suit was at the cleaners a couple times per year. I told him they were very cheap suits that I wasn't attached to and had spent very little money on them, so if the alterations were going to be extensive/expensive, I'd prefer just to donate them. The sport coat was also a cheap purchase, but I was interested in making it fit as well as possible so I could use that as a template for jackets in the future.


We spent a few minutes trying on each piece, and I left him with my name and phone number and he said he'd call me when the work was done to come back and try on the pieces again (anybody see my errors yet?).


A week and a few days later he called asking me to come pick up the garments. I tried on all the pieces and the new suit was great. The pant legs could have been maybe a touch slimmer below the knee, and one of my sleeves was a bit too short, but I moved on to the other pieces, The other two suits were still a bit tight, as he warned, but after the holidays, I normally lose a few pounds anyway, so they were reasonable. The sport coat fit well, but looked a little silly since the pockets ended up too close to the bottom of the jacket. Again, this is something I knew might have been an issue, but was prepared to not be able to wear the final piece.


I had forgotten to bring a checkbook, so I asked him to see the invoice so I could go to the ATM machine down the road. He pulled a hand-written scrap paper with illegible handwriting and one visible number circled on the bottom, to which he pointed and read aloud: "six hundred fifteen dollars."


Now to be fair, I understand that shortening a jacket can be a difficult alteration, and therefore, expensive, and I had it done twice. I am mostly pleased with the work, but today, wearing the new suit, I do find a few areas that possibly could have been cleaned up a bit or adjusted a bit more to be more in line with what I wanted from the alterations. However, considering that 1/2 of the garments were destined for the donation pile, and another was a $10 potentially unwearable purchase, this is MUCH more than I was expecting to spend. If I had known the total ahead of time, I would have scaled back on the scope of work big time.


So, lessons learned:


1) New tailor = 1 item


2) Written estimate BEFORE leaving the clothes and walking out the door.


So, getting back on topic, I have a few pics of my altered jacket sleeves. At rest, the length seems good, despite a difference in the length of my arms that makes one cuff show more than the other. However, while typing, the jacket sleeves pull up way past my shirt cuffs, which drives me crazy. I know these pics aren't going to be enough to diagnose the whole situation, but does anybody have tips? Is it actually my shirt sleeve that's too long so it doesn't retract when I lift my arms? Is it some other fit issue, perhaps the shoulders of the jacket?



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