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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2023

post #30331 of 37396
Is it cool to wear a light blue linen shirt under a dark blue linen suit to an outdoor, daytime, fairly casual wedding where temps might be in the 90s?

Or is that too much linen and I should go with blue cotton shirt? Probably wearing a navy grenadine tie if at all.
post #30332 of 37396
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Is it cool to wear a light blue linen shirt under a dark blue linen suit to an outdoor, daytime, fairly casual wedding where temps might be in the 90s?

Or is that too much linen and I should go with blue cotton shirt? Probably wearing a navy grenadine tie if at all.


Linen on linen sounds good. I'd forgo the tie or wear a silk knit.

post #30333 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Is it cool to wear a light blue linen shirt under a dark blue linen suit to an outdoor, daytime, fairly casual wedding where temps might be in the 90s?

Or is that too much linen and I should go with blue cotton shirt? Probably wearing a navy grenadine tie if at all.

No problem at all. With temperatures like that and it being a casual wedding, I'd consider leaving the tie at home if I were you.
post #30334 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

No problem at all. With temperatures like that and it being a casual wedding, I'd consider leaving the tie at home if I were you.

Yeah, I do linen on linen action all the time.
post #30335 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

+1. That's because the Formosa cut is not well balanced and makes everyone who wears it look top heavy. Murl's 2 meter long legs compensate for that. smile.gif
Noodles' particular case was caused by him foolishly persevering in going for close fitting shoulders, which doesn't work with a pyramid shaped body.
@Coxsackie not to rain on your parade because that's a lovely looking suit, but I'm not sure if it's wise to rely on the stiffness of the fabric to ensure a good fit. Especially since linen will soften up and loose shape with wear, even the heavier cloths. You can already see signs of the right shoulder line slightly collapsing and that will get worse with wear. The left side is also slightly collapsing, probably because of a dropped shoulder.

A lot of neapolitan jackets makes one top heavy or you want to qualify your statement? Only thing that gives me pause are the wide open fronts which is just a stylistic preference (may not work on my body) and nothing more

Here are some RTW Formosa fits I really like but it helps that the people wearing them are in good shape. Excluding Greg's fits Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
2C2FC6F0-F70F-43A2-A3CD-8525210EF99F_zpskoqlrakr.jpg







post #30336 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

@Coxsackie not to rain on your parade because that's a lovely looking suit, but I'm not sure if it's wise to rely on the stiffness of the fabric to ensure a good fit. Especially since linen will soften up and loose shape with wear, even the heavier cloths. You can already see signs of the right shoulder line slightly collapsing and that will get worse with wear. The left side is also slightly collapsing, probably because of a dropped shoulder.

 

As usual, you have a very keen eye. However what you say is not entirely correct. In fact it is my right shoulder which is dropped, not my left. This could be due to decades of cello playing or it could be because I had an anterior reconstruction on that side a few years ago after a water-skiing accident. Or maybe I was born that way. But anyway, with the dropped shoulder comes a prominent coracoid process (the bit at the end of the collar-bone where it connects with the shoulder-blade) which explains the slight bump in my right shoulder line about halfway along. This bump is very apparent with some garments, less so with others.

 

This particular Formosa is actually not completely structureless - there is a thin panel of padding in there, which hopefully will help it keep its shape even when the linen softens up a bit.

 

Yes, I kopped.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Yeah, I do linen on linen action all the time.

 

Hie thee to the Friday Challenge thread and post some of said action. 

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/507400/friday-challenge-4-september-2015-air-your-linen/15#post_8079857

post #30337 of 37396

Oops. I just realised that the bump is in my left shoulder, not my right!

 

It is definitely my right shoulder that's dropped though. I have to have my jacket sleeves hemmed at slightly different lengths.

post #30338 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post


A lot of neapolitan jackets makes one top heavy or you want to qualify your statement? Only thing that gives me pause are the wide open fronts which is just a stylistic preference (may not work on my body) and nothing more

Here are some RTW Formosa fits I really like but it helps that the people wearing them are in good shape. Excluding Greg's fits Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
2C2FC6F0-F70F-43A2-A3CD-8525210EF99F_zpskoqlrakr.jpg







 

I don't agree that a lot of neapolitan jackets make one look top heavy. Only the not so good ones... What I mean is that on most Formosa pics, it seems that the buttoning point is just too low and the lapels too wide. Looks to me as if Formosa took the stylistic cues of Neapolitan tailoring that make it such a trend nowadays and exaggerated those to fit the modern iGents taste. Presumably for the American market, since it's a common known fact that you guys lack the finer aesthetic sensibilities to appreciate the merits of understated style. ;)

IMO, one of the most commonly quoted mistakes is that the buttoning point should be at (or a little above) one's natural waist. That works if you have a physique like Leonardo's Vitruvian man, but not many of us are thus blessed. (Murl excepted...)

 

 

If you have a longer or wider torso and/or shorter legs, it should be higher. It is my personal opinion that the buttoning point should be placed there where it most flatters the wearer, which results in a jacket where there is a visual balance between the top and the bottom half of a jacket.

Further, the extremely wide lapels don't work on most people either. Broad torso's look even broader and skinny men are completely swamped by them. Together, they make the wearer look older and 'tired', just look at this example:

 

 

These three gentlemen are respected Neapolitan tailors of - I guess - roughly the same age. Sr. Solito on the left of the pic wears a jacket with a higher buttoning point (and arguably a bit too short), while Sr. Panico on the right wear one with a very low buttoning point. It is obvious that Sr Solito looks fresher and more youthful.

 

Here is an example of how Formosa can go wrong, this looks like someone with an enormously long torso with strange short legs:

 

 

Those who've followed this posters own thread know that Mr. Despos cuts a suit that does his normal proportions more justice.

 

Please note, it is not my intention to bash Formosa, but the unconditional love for it that's often found around here is unjustified in my opinion.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxsackie View Post
 

 

As usual, you have a very keen eye. However what you say is not entirely correct. In fact it is my right shoulder which is dropped, not my left. This could be due to decades of cello playing or it could be because I had an anterior reconstruction on that side a few years ago after a water-skiing accident. Or maybe I was born that way. But anyway, with the dropped shoulder comes a prominent coracoid process (the bit at the end of the collar-bone where it connects with the shoulder-blade) which explains the slight bump in my right shoulder line about halfway along. This bump is very apparent with some garments, less so with others.

 

This particular Formosa is actually not completely structureless - there is a thin panel of padding in there, which hopefully will help it keep its shape even when the linen softens up a bit.

 

Yes, I kopped.

 

 

Hie thee to the Friday Challenge thread and post some of said action. 

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/507400/friday-challenge-4-september-2015-air-your-linen/15#post_8079857

 

Yes, I remember now you mentioned before that you've had surgery. Perhaps slightly taking the jacket in on the sides could alleviate the bunching up that happens? In any case, these are only minor nit picks. It's very nice suit, wear in good health!

post #30339 of 37396

Elio

 

I don't have a problem with where the buttoning point is on Newcomer's Formosa. I do think the jacket is a bit long for him at least from the vantage point of the shot in question (a half inch shorter or so might be nicer). But this example doesn't raise a question of fit as opposed to one of stylistic, aesthetic choices.

 

A lower buttoning point appeals to me because it emphasizes the chest as oppose to the abdomen (high buttoning points create this expanse where you don't want to appear to have an expanse). I think Newcomer's stance is on one end (the low end) of a range that I think would suit him fine. Would not recommend him going as high as the top button on the jacket in question.

 

Really hard to make judgments in the pic you posted of the illustrious Italians. The cut of the jacket on the left does seem more youthful but that's for many different reasons. Can't really judge the one on the right, but it is closer to the Formosa.

post #30340 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

I don't agree that a lot of neapolitan jackets make one look top heavy. Only the not so good ones... What I mean is that on most Formosa pics, it seems that the buttoning point is just too low and the lapels too wide. Looks to me as if Formosa took the stylistic cues of Neapolitan tailoring that make it such a trend nowadays and exaggerated those to fit the modern iGents taste. Presumably for the American market, since it's a common known fact that you guys lack the finer aesthetic sensibilities to appreciate the merits of understated style. wink.gif
IMO, one of the most commonly quoted mistakes is that the buttoning point should be at (or a little above) one's natural waist. That works if you have a physique like Leonardo's Vitruvian man, but not many of us are thus blessed. (Murl excepted...)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



If you have a longer or wider torso and/or shorter legs, it should be higher. It is my personal opinion that the buttoning point should be placed there where it most flatters the wearer, which results in a jacket where there is a visual balance between the top and the bottom half of a jacket.
Further, the extremely wide lapels don't work on most people either. Broad torso's look even broader and skinny men are completely swamped by them. Together, they make the wearer look older and 'tired', just look at this example:




These three gentlemen are respected Neapolitan tailors of - I guess - roughly the same age. Sr. Solito on the left of the pic wears a jacket with a higher buttoning point (and arguably a bit too short), while Sr. Panico on the right wear one with a very low buttoning point. It is obvious that Sr Solito looks fresher and more youthful.

Here is an example of how Formosa can go wrong, this looks like someone with an enormously long torso with strange short legs:




Those who've followed this posters own thread know that Mr. Despos cuts a suit that does his normal proportions more justice.

Please note, it is not my intention to bash Formosa, but the unconditional love for it that's often found around here is unjustified in my opinion.



Yes, I remember now you mentioned before that you've had surgery. Perhaps slightly taking the jacket in on the sides could alleviate the bunching up that happens? In any case, these are only minor nit picks. It's very nice suit, wear in good health!

The fault really isn't in the design of the suit, it's more about ill-advised customers. If the buttoning point is raised then you throw a wrench on a lot of tall and normal proportioned customers and they will have disproportionately long legs. If I were to change anything, I'd increase the width of the sleeves by a touch to balance proportions with the lapel width and reduce the arc of the fronts to make it less aggressive.

When we are talking about exaggerated Neapolitan cuts then look no further than Sartoria Chiaia or Sciamat

d5923732fafc159dcd4f7297649b4729.jpg

Now look at how good it looks on @in stitches that is of average height and well endowed in the girth area wink.gif It looks well proportioned and balanced

tumblr_n1k9kqmxPw1r9y9u3o1_400.png


Guy's with short torsos should generally avoid longer jackets with low buttoning points which is the issue you see in Newcomer's Formosa fit and why he looks better in the SuSu Havana




Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Presumably for the American market, since it's a common known fact that you guys lack the finer aesthetic sensibilities to appreciate the merits of understated style. wink.gif

Fuck Yeah, Murica. Cuz Murica!!!

post #30341 of 37396
This has nothing to do with this actual thread, but I found it amusing. I just finished ironing my 3yr old's linen shirt for a family picture and notice his buttons are shanked! Shirt is J Crew...they probably don't do that for their men's shirts.

post #30342 of 37396

On the Formosa question - I guess you have to try it to see and if it works for you, then it works for you, it makes sense to go for it because the fabrics are great and the cut is distinctive. However, I've seen Formosa look great on some people and distinctly ordinary on others.

 

Personally, as I've said before on this issue, I would just hesitate to pay that much for OTR when I can get my tailor to cut me a suit how I want, that fits me perfectly, for a price in the same area: with the higher end of mid-range fabrics and fully canvassed etc., a 2-piece would cost me £1400 (= just over $2100 US at current exchange rates, i.e. the same as NMWA standard Formosa pricing) and a lot less if I source my own fabric.

post #30343 of 37396

The underlying problem is that many insist on patronizing celebrity tailors instead of the guy in their town (or state, or tri-state area, or capital). Unfortunately, the information online would lead you to believe that there are 12 important tailors in the world and that their heritage Italian pixie dust is priceless. That, or they like paying for garments impregnated with tobacco fumes (the terroir of the area).

post #30344 of 37396
I have a short torso compared to my already short legs. So a lower buttoning point would not be flattering to my body? When I wear my pants at my natural waist I feel like it looks awkward. Especially when at work I have to wear a shirt & tie without a jacket.
post #30345 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

The underlying problem is that many insist on patronizing celebrity tailors instead of the guy in their town (or state, or tri-state area, or capital). Unfortunately, the information online would lead you to believe that there are 12 important tailors in the world and that their heritage Italian pixie dust is priceless. That, or they like paying for garments impregnated with tobacco fumes (the terroir of the area).

Some local tailors don't have house styles. For example, I have access to Richard Lim and can pay $1000-1200 for a full canvas bespoke suit (if you require more handwork, then the prices jump significantly), but he doesn't have a house style. A noob like me, I don't know what looks good on my body really because I haven't tried on that many suits. 

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