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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2022

post #30316 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post
 


You're right. I do associate "properly fitting" jackets to one that is "close to" the body type of the wearer usually. In my mind, a snug fitting suit works well with skinny people or muscular people with lower body fat percentage. Also there are some exceptions, e.g., someone with small shoulders would benefit from structured shoulders and perhaps an elongated shoulder. But I don't think a sack suit would work on a really skinny person. E.g., a sack suit would probably not look all that great on Neil Patrick Harris.

 

Those Formosa jackets were not tailored to fit TweedyProf. Maybe after it goes to the tailor, it will look the jeffreyd jacket, but to my eye, the style didn't seem right. Also, if he was wearing suit pants or pants tailored to match that jacket, it would have looked perfect.


No, they weren't tailored to fit me, but as I said, the 46 was tighter on me than the Jort 48. Greg "broke" it in a bit, which would happen with normal wear (a bit of pulling and stretching) and then it settled in nicely. But I'm not seeing the issues you are pointing out as so starkly different between the jackets I'm wearing (Jort vs the Formosa below).

 

 

If you look closely, jeffreyd's chest is actually drapier than the Formosa I'm wearing above. But the extension is about the same. Look from the shoulder curve on the the right arm side (notice more drape in J's coat though his waist is more suppressed). If anything the Formosa on me has a more trim appearance above the button point (waist aside). The lapels are wider and perhaps that's throwing things off for you?

 

I actually worry that the size I was wearing in that Formosa pic is too small as it is rather trim in the chest. Here's the back of the Formosa (rumpled because I had to raise an arm to take the pic). Arms down, it was quite clean and not really different from the Jort. I wouldn't call the back drapey

 

 

 

Anyway, I think it's good to articulate clearly, as you have, your preferences. I tell my students, writing is the key to clarity of thought. That and coffee.

post #30317 of 37417
Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post

I favor sloping shoulders because i have them. I had to work pretty hard to get them too. I like natural instead of structured shoulders because it shows off the slope.

 

Makes sense.  Mine took no effort at all.  :satisfied: That Formosa block wouldn't work for me either.. 

post #30318 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

Greg, Murl, and newcomer look very, very good in Formosa, off the top of my head. I don't recall if V3 has some, but I think he does and I think it similarly flatters him. Stitchy looked good in Formosa, but better in Panta (though that was bespoke, so not a fair comparison). Formosa on Mr.Six looks good sometimes and other times less so. It definitely wasn't the best for Noodles. Those are all the big Formosa regulars I can think of, so it's definitely more hit than miss.

Yeah, it's not for everyone. Dependant on body type. Stitches by panta look amazing
post #30319 of 37417

Cucita a mano

Formosa per Men's Wearhouse

post #30320 of 37417
Murl was the only one in a Formosa that made me cuss because it looked so good on him.
post #30321 of 37417

Formosa, forschmosa.

 

I tried on two or three Formosas yesterday. The slightly extended shoulders absolutely did not work for me in softer fabrics. Greg then went and fetched the linen suit I finally bought, and it was completely different. Despite being 100% linen, it's a relatively stiff fabric which holds its shape well.

 

My shoulders, while not sloping, are somewhat narrow (I have puny deltoids) and most jackets I have tried on with spalla camicia shoulder expression simply don't work. But this one did - and that's definitely due to the cloth.

 

As to drape, this is important to me as I have a barrel chest. Now "drape" may not be quite the right word for the Formosa cut, as it's a specific technique developed by English tailors whereas Formosa is Neapolitan.

 

Let's just say that my chest configuration demands more roominess in the upper jacket panels, and this particular Formosa suit delivers that. The result is that there's little or no lapel bowing in this suit when I put it on.

 

@doodledoc is talking about his preferences for various cuts based on photos of individuals. A so-called "drape cut" will suit some people (eg myself) better than others. Ditto for various shoulder expressions, degree of shoulder padding, and so forth.

 

Each person has to work out (either by trial and error, or with the help of a good tailor/cutter/stylist) what works for his body type. I already know that I benefit from a bit more padding in the shoulder, but this Formosa suit, with minimal shoulder padding and spalla camicia expression - neither of which should be suitable for me - proves that there's more than one way to the woods.

post #30322 of 37417

I envy you guys with your talk of "deltoids" and "barrel chest."

No one ever mentions terms like "skeletal."   :(

post #30323 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

I envy you guys with your talk of "deltoids" and "barrel chest."
No one ever mentions terms like "skeletal."   frown.gif

Where is monkeyface when you need him?

'Go to the gym bro'
post #30324 of 37417
Playing a full 90 minutes of football (soccer) definitely beats working out in my basement.
post #30325 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

I envy you guys with your talk of "deltoids" and "barrel chest."

No one ever mentions terms like "skeletal."   :(

Lift weights. It's good for you. Or if you're competitive, do a sport that involves lifting people like wrestling or judo. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post
 


No, they weren't tailored to fit me, but as I said, the 46 was tighter on me than the Jort 48. Greg "broke" it in a bit, which would happen with normal wear (a bit of pulling and stretching) and then it settled in nicely. But I'm not seeing the issues you are pointing out as so starkly different between the jackets I'm wearing (Jort vs the Formosa below).

 

 

If you look closely, jeffreyd's chest is actually drapier than the Formosa I'm wearing above. But the extension is about the same. Look from the shoulder curve on the the right arm side (notice more drape in J's coat though his waist is more suppressed). If anything the Formosa on me has a more trim appearance above the button point (waist aside). The lapels are wider and perhaps that's throwing things off for you?

 

 

It's the waist suppression that is throwing me off. The style that I find most aesthetically pleasing is one with a nipped waist. jeffreyd has a large drop between the chest and waist (at least 4''). In a perfect world, I can do a 44'' chest and a 38'' waist on my jacket. But that would look weird. The Formosa on you look a if it's a 1'' difference between the chest and the waist, which is why I find it less appealing. The quality of jeffreyd's picture isn't very high and I still can't see any drape in the chest (even when I zoom in). The chest on his jacket looks smaller proportionally to yours in my eyes. What makes his more pleasing overall is the waist suppression. 

 

 
 
 
Coxsackie, I too require more roominess in the upper jacket panels. I like a 5'' allowance in the chest. 
post #30326 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao Cao View Post

Murl was the only one in a Formosa that made me cuss because it looked so good on him.

+1. That's because the Formosa cut is not well balanced and makes everyone who wears it look top heavy. Murl's 2 meter long legs compensate for that. smile.gif
Noodles' particular case was caused by him foolishly persevering in going for close fitting shoulders, which doesn't work with a pyramid shaped body.
@Coxsackie not to rain on your parade because that's a lovely looking suit, but I'm not sure if it's wise to rely on the stiffness of the fabric to ensure a good fit. Especially since linen will soften up and loose shape with wear, even the heavier cloths. You can already see signs of the right shoulder line slightly collapsing and that will get worse with wear. The left side is also slightly collapsing, probably because of a dropped shoulder.
post #30327 of 37417

I don't really see any particular problem with @TweedyProf's shoulder expression-- too much roping (though the jefferyd jacket also has rollino) for you maybe?  The fit in the shoulders is quite good based on the back view, unless you're just upset that he has broad shoulders.

 

Your point about waist suppression makes some sense.

post #30328 of 37417

I'm the only one that things the Formosa shoulder doesn't fit him well. It's likely because I don't know what I'm talking about. 

 

I also have broad shoulders and I worked hard to get broad shoulders. If anything, I really like broad shoulders.

post #30329 of 37417
You know, this has to be one of the more interesting discussions on this thread for quite sometime.

I guess I will put in my 2c.

I think there are pros and cons to a drapier fit, and a less drapey fit. As has been hashed out ad nauseum, the difference between the fit of the SuSu and the Formosa is almost entirely aesthetic. And it really boils down to what image you want to project.

A trend that I find somewhat humorous is the online MTM business. Don't get me wrong, it can turn out well. But many folks seem to think that something made to their measurements--in any of itself--is something that is good. That really could not be farther from the truth. I have a very, very narrow waist, compared to my hips. If I submitted my measurements to an online MTM service that duplicated my measurements precisely, I may have something that "fit" me, but I would not have something that was even remotely pleasing to the eye.

Similarly, SuSu suits fit very close. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. Something can look like it was made to your body, but not "fit" properly. Accordingly, I think it is troublesome to view a good "fit" as something that merely replicates / follows your body type. A good fit needs to utilize your best aspects, and overlook your bad aspects. I may have a narrow natural waist, but I cannot "show it off." I will look terrible. I think SuSu suits are nice. However, the jacket has such a clean cut that it requires trousers that are equally clean. In other words, the jacket may fit nicely, but it still needs to look proportional with the trousers, which brings in a whole other issue. I haven't purchased any SuSu sportcoats, because most of my trousers just don't work with them.

Which brings us to the drape cut. It was originally meant to make a person look more masculine, give a broader chest, etc., while also facilitating movement. For me, it gives me a more balanced look--I normally wear trousers on the fuller end of the spectrum. The one problem with a RTW drapey garment is that, in a way, a RTW drape cut kind of belies the whole point of the cut. Especially for someone like me, whose front/back balance is way out of whack. I really don't know how much I benefit from a RTW drapey garment when does not sit on me perfectly. Now that I have ventured into bespoke, I get the idea of having the jacket rest on the shoulders. I think that the drapey cuts work best on people that happen to fit into the mold. I think Cox looks great. It addresses his issues very well.

P.S., slightly drunk.
post #30330 of 37417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

You know, this has to be one of the more interesting discussions on this thread for quite sometime.

I guess I will put in my 2c.

I think there are pros and cons to a drapier fit, and a less drapey fit. As has been hashed out ad nauseum, the difference between the fit of the SuSu and the Formosa is almost entirely aesthetic. And it really boils down to what image you want to project.

A trend that I find somewhat humorous is the online MTM business. Don't get me wrong, it can turn out well. But many folks seem to think that something made to their measurements--in any of itself--is something that is good. That really could not be farther from the truth. I have a very, very narrow waist, compared to my hips. If I submitted my measurements to an online MTM service that duplicated my measurements precisely, I may have something that "fit" me, but I would not have something that was even remotely pleasing to the eye.

Similarly, SuSu suits fit very close. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. Something can look like it was made to your body, but not "fit" properly. Accordingly, I think it is troublesome to view a good "fit" as something that merely replicates / follows your body type. A good fit needs to utilize your best aspects, and overlook your bad aspects. I may have a narrow natural waist, but I cannot "show it off." I will look terrible. I think SuSu suits are nice. However, the jacket has such a clean cut that it requires trousers that are equally clean. In other words, the jacket may fit nicely, but it still needs to look proportional with the trousers, which brings in a whole other issue. I haven't purchased any SuSu sportcoats, because most of my trousers just don't work with them.

Which brings us to the drape cut. It was originally meant to make a person look more masculine, give a broader chest, etc., while also facilitating movement. For me, it gives me a more balanced look--I normally wear trousers on the fuller end of the spectrum. The one problem with a RTW drapey garment is that, in a way, a RTW drape cut kind of belies the whole point of the cut. Especially for someone like me, whose front/back balance is way out of whack. I really don't know how much I benefit from a RTW drapey garment when does not sit on me perfectly. Now that I have ventured into bespoke, I get the idea of having the jacket rest on the shoulders. I think that the drapey cuts work best on people that happen to fit into the mold. I think Cox looks great. It addresses his issues very well.

P.S., slightly drunk.

 

What type of body type looks best in a drape cut? It was originally meant to make a person look more masculine, but a RTW belies the whole point (fails to give someone a more masculine appearance). Thus, you're suggesting true MTM/bespoke drape cut does make you look more masculine?

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