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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2020

post #30286 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post
 

Very confusing. Some of these suits, to my eye, look as if they are boxy or a size too big. In some of these suits, to me, it appears that the shoulders don't fit or that the chest has an inch of extra room. Since reading this forum, I thought this means that the suit doesn't fit and thus you should size down or find a different brand that fits your body better. Now, it's being discussed as "drape" and that some of you like that more than a "clean" look.

 

Perhaps I just don't get it.

 

Why you no lyke ze drape?

post #30287 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTRC View Post
 

 

Why you no lyke ze drape?

After reading threads on this forum and other forums, I was told that clothing should have "clean lines" (w/e that means). I understand why the person wearing the suit likes drape; it's probably much more comfortable. I bought a suit in both a size 40 and 42. The 42 probably has more drape to it since it's bigger and is more comfortable, but it doesn't have the "clean lines" of of the 40.

 

If I had to wear the jacket for 8 hours straight and had to constantly move my arms as if I was writing on a chalk board or giving a presentation, I would easily buy the 42. If I require constant movement, I'd prefer drape.

post #30288 of 37536

A well-produced jacket with a drape cut has both clean lines and a bit of carefully built-in volume.  A good drape cut should never be too big in its outer margins; rather, within those margins, it will subtly incorporate material to add dimensionality to the chest. 

post #30289 of 37536

There are different types of tailoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post
 

Very confusing. Some of these suits, to my eye, look as if they are boxy or a size too big. In some of these suits, to me, it appears that the shoulders don't fit or that the chest has an inch of extra room. Since reading this forum, I thought this means that the suit doesn't fit and thus you should size down or find a different brand that fits your body better. Now, it's being discussed as "drape" and that some of you like that more than a "clean" look.

 

Perhaps I just don't get it.

I think  with these types of comments you like a leaner (closer to the body), more structured/less flow-y silhouette. That is fine.

 

That does not, however, mean that one who likes a more relaxed shoulder, a fuller chest, and  drape, is incorrect or the wrong size. Is it merely a stylistic difference.

 

Post #7 could help too

http://www.styleforum.net/t/48875/manton-suit-thread/0_50

 

ex - 

 

Overall, a silhouette may be lean or full; structured or soft; elongating or "widening"; smooth (or "clean") or draped (or "rumpled"). Structure v. softness generally depends on the type of materials used, and on stitching techniques. E.g., a structured suit will use more padding in the shoulders, stiffer canvas in the chest, etc. There are certain hand stitching techniques that go into making a soft suit which actual tailors have described in detail, so I defer to them.

 

and later - 

 

The chest of a coat may be full (swelled) or lean (shallow); and draped or clean. Basically, on a jacket with a lean chest, the outer edges of the jacket are pretty close to your actual torso. A swelled chest means there’s extra cloth that stands apart from your chest, making it look bigger (wider). Swell is generally convex: billowing out in a gentle curve from the waist (or bottom of the ribs) and then back in under the armscye. "Swell" is not be confused with drape. A really good tailor can make a chest that fits close to your torso at the sides, but has some drape (excess vertical folds of cloth) in the hollow area below your collarbone. Other tailors will make the cloth here lie completely flat and clean.
 

post #30290 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

There are different types of tailoring.

I think  with these types of comments you like a cleaner (closer to the body), more structured/less flow-y silhouette. That is fine.

 

That does not, however, mean that one who likes a more relaxed shoulder, a fuller chest, and  drape, is incorrect.


I'm not trying to say that I'm correct or anything. Honestly, I don't know very much. What I do know is from this and another forum, specifically the comments from fit pics threads (my own and others) and from the WAYWRN threads. The comments and pictures almost always favor the cleaner silhouette, which is why this discussion is confusing me.

post #30291 of 37536
You're not going to get drape by sizing up.
It's a cut not a size issue. Cf. fullness in chest which can be achieved in other ways AFAIK.


But perhaps you can say more regarding previous pics? Perhaps you mean the tan Formosa where the drape is more apparent?

For me, the issue is how accentuated the drape is, as can be seen across the Formosa pics in the last few pages. I prefer the leaner drape (me in 46, then 48, cf. six and cox fits).
post #30292 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

You're not going to get drape by sizing up.
It's a cut not a size issue. Cf. fullness in chest which can be achieved in other ways AFAIK.


But perhaps you can say more regarding previous pics? Perhaps you mean the tan Formosa where the drape is more apparent?

For me, the issue is how accentuated the drape is, as can be seen across the Formosa pics in the last few pages. I prefer the leaner drape (me in 46, then 48, cf. six and cox fits).

I think he is saying he's used to seeing suits have no wrinkles/cut close to the body, rather than 3D dimensionality away from the body with a fuller chest/extended shoulders, and when he does, hes used to thinking extra cloth = too big/doesn't fit

post #30293 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

I think he is saying he's used to seeing suits have no wrinkles/cut close to the body, rather than 3D dimensionality away from the body with a fuller chest/extended shoulders, and when he does, hes used to thinking extra cloth = too big/doesn't fit


Maybe you're right.

 

Looking over the posts, I'm not sure what the issue is. On the 42 vs 40 size, increase in size will not give you drape thought it might make the chest area fuller, perhaps without being too big. But all the previous pictures seem to not have basic fit issues. We've been arguing about finer details.

 

Anyway, @doodledoc , since this is a good natured thread, a pic is worth a thousand words. What concretely are you referring to (via one of the previous pics)? That might help the conversation from being scattered.


Edited by TweedyProf - 9/4/15 at 2:17pm
post #30294 of 37536

1.
2.

Both of these suits seem to have elongated shoulders right? The jackets' shoulders makes it look like you have massive and muscular shoulders like Dwayne Johnson. The photo on the right (which you said is a size up) seems to suggest that you have a long upper body but very short legs. I can't focus on anything else in that picture. 

 

Edit: Regarding the chest, I think you can hide a clipboard behind the chest and no one would notice. There appears to be that much room there.

 

3.
4.

I'm guessing these are both SS suits? This seems more natural to me. The brown/tan jacket appears to have an impeccable fit. This appear to fit much better and better represents your body. Clean lines everywhere, yet it looks comfortable. I prefer the brown/tan jacket better only because I can clearly see it. The navy jacket is very difficult to see because of the lack of light. I do like the shoulders on the navy jacket though!

 

 

 5. 6.

The left jacket fits much better in my opinion than the right. I think these are both Formosa? The shoulder is not extended like the first two pictures though there is some going on in the right shoulder (dark grey jacket, your right shoulder, there appears to be a rumple). It doesn't appear to be smooth.  The brown/tan coat has the extended Dwayne Johnson shoulders and looks like the first two pictures.

 

 

7.

This fits well in my opinion, but the right shoulder (his right) is not smooth. I see a rumple.

 

8.


This is an impeccable fit.

 

8 and 3 are my favorite. Both tied as I think both have an impeccable fit. Then 5. 5 has a good fit, but not impeccable. I don't judge 4 because I can't see it very well due to the lack of light. But then again, this is just my personal opinion.

 

Justin Kapur looks good in all of his Formosa suits. The only thing I would change is to have it longer, but that's a personal preference.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

I think he is saying he's used to seeing suits have no wrinkles/cut close to the body, rather than 3D dimensionality away from the body with a fuller chest/extended shoulders, and when he does, hes used to thinking extra cloth = too big/doesn't fit


Exactly true, except for "3d dimensionality away from the body." I have no idea what that means. 


Edited by doodledoc - 9/4/15 at 2:04pm
post #30295 of 37536

Yeah... this isn't a fit discussion as much as a style preference discussion.

 

Seems you prefer cleaner, leaner suits with no shoulder extension.

post #30296 of 37536
Quote:

Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post

 

I'm guessing these are both SS suits? This seems more natural to me. 

Also interesting how you characterize the suits that look the tight-est to the body, and have the most structure seem the most natural. To me, its the opposite - the formosa look very relaxed and more casual, while the SS looks more stiff and formal (not that there is anything wrong with that, just how the suit/jacket is structured)

post #30297 of 37536

I agree that for the most part, this is more about stylistic preference than fit.

 

I think the Dwayne Johnson description is a bit too extreme of a description (i.e. it's not that exaggerated). You are right that the extended shoulder does emphasize the upper torso, but in the Formosa's above, we are talking about a fairly small extension relative to the Jort. I actually think that's a bit more pleasing, a larger inverted triangle relative to the bottom triangle (meeting roughly at the button point/waist). 

 

A point related to comments Poorsod made earlier: I actually like the variety and would choose the Formosa for wintry, tweedy jackets. 

 

Edit: In person the first Formosa fit like the Jort in terms of trimness. Indeed, it was "tight" at the arm holes though with breaking in, it should be fine. This tells one, actually, how the cut of a jacket can really change how it looks as opposed to how it fits (feels on the body)

post #30298 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodledoc View Post
 

After reading threads on this forum and other forums, I was told that clothing should have "clean lines" (w/e that means). I understand why the person wearing the suit likes drape; it's probably much more comfortable. I bought a suit in both a size 40 and 42. The 42 probably has more drape to it since it's bigger and is more comfortable, but it doesn't have the "clean lines" of of the 40.

 

If I had to wear the jacket for 8 hours straight and had to constantly move my arms as if I was writing on a chalk board or giving a presentation, I would easily buy the 42. If I require constant movement, I'd prefer drape.

 

Drape chest vs. clean chest is a cut question, completely independent of clean the lines are elsewhere in the suit. I think to see what it means to have a well-fitted drape jacket (i.e., one with "clean lines") it's most instructive to look at the back of the jacket:

post #30299 of 37536

Funny thing is, I prefer drape on the front of the jacket and not on the back!

post #30300 of 37536
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkoftheplains View Post
 

 

Drape chest vs. clean chest is a cut question, completely independent of clean the lines are elsewhere in the suit. I think to see what it means to have a well-fitted drape jacket (i.e., one with "clean lines") it's most instructive to look at the back of the jacket:


This is considered a drape jacket? I see the lines in the back, but this doesn't appear to be full at all to me. This jacket looks more like the SS jackets than any of the Formosa jackets. This jacket is better looking than all the other jackets in my opinion. Natural shoulders, nipped waist, good length, clean lines.

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