or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 2007

post #30091 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Carter View Post

Well they definitely aren't as sturdy as self tipped tie that's for sure, and that's why I don't make any un-tipped grenadines unless special ordered, they just stretch too much with the lesser structure in them. But they do make for a great lighter weight summer tie in linens, printed silk etc and help keep the weight down on heavier weight fabrics like shantung.

But the average non SF person buying a tie from a store doesn't get un-tipped ties that's for sure.

IMHO tipping your grenadines (especially finas) is an excellent decision.  Grossas I don't mind so much either way.  

 

Wool and cashmere untipped, though!

post #30092 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

HC, I'm not sure why lack of tipping would lead to extra stretching in grenadines (versus lack of lining along the parts of the tie that do get stretched away from the tip). Hand rolling I can understand to add some delicacy to the tie. I agree that rolled edges is nice for summer ties; it adds to the sense of lightness. I quite like it in wool ties for it lightens the heaviness of that material.

None of this will be very visible to the external observer. Unless your tie is flapping in the wind or they are looking at close range at the tip of the tie, it matters little to them. 

Which is to say, we make all sorts of choices on things that have not normative but aesthetic value or valuing craftsmanship. Semperexcelsius has come to dislike rolled edges on ties. That's great, as he develops his tastes. I like them for a different dimension that they add to the tie, making wool and summer ties seem lighter. 



There's no reason why the lining need be exposed.
Not actually exposed, but the fact that you can access it.
post #30093 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

HC, I'm not sure why lack of tipping would lead to extra stretching in grenadines (versus lack of lining along the parts of the tie that do get stretched away from the tip). Hand rolling I can understand to add some delicacy to the tie. I agree that rolled edges is nice for summer ties; it adds to the sense of lightness. I quite like it in wool ties for it lightens the heaviness of that material.
Mostly from tugging on the tie to tighten the knot is where I've found stretching it happen on un-tipped grenadines and again when most people take them off by pulling the knot through rather than un-tying it backwards. The delicacy of not having the structure of the tipping keeping the tie sturdier no doubt makes a difference to that IME.
post #30094 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by semperexcelsius View Post
 

I've decided that I dislike ties without tipping and with those silly handrolled edges.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post
 

I'm with you bro, don't like them either. A gratuitous affectation, IMO. I do admit I own one untipped, handrolled tie but that's a very un-igent heavy jacquard 7-fold.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Carter View Post

Well they definitely aren't as sturdy as self tipped tie that's for sure, and that's why I don't make any un-tipped grenadines unless special ordered, they just stretch too much with the lesser structure in them. But they do make for a great lighter weight summer tie in linens, printed silk etc and help keep the weight down on heavier weight fabrics like shantung.

But the average non SF person buying a tie from a store doesn't get un-tipped ties that's for sure.

 

What's not to love about this?

 

 

Henry Carter wool challis, untipped, hand rolled edges.

post #30095 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxsackie View Post



What's not to love about this?




Henry Carter wool challis, untipped, hand rolled edges.
Beautiful
post #30096 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxsackie View Post
 

 

 

 

What's not to love about this?

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Henry Carter wool challis, untipped, hand rolled edges.

 

Beautiful, but it looks unfinished.... I do understand that for wool ties it makes sense to go unlined to make them lighter. Though of course, wool ties should be worn in winter and thus should be warm.

But unlined, untipped printed silk ties make no sense to me. Perhaps it's to be able to show off the back to prove it's made of ancient thirsts? Do you really think it's elegant to see a flimsy piece of coloured ribbon flapping in the wind?

I know printed ties have always had their place in menswear, but since I'm an old man I remember it wasn't all that long ago that the quality of a  tie was judged by the heft of its woven silk. Printed ties were generally associated with those tacky department store specimens.

The comeback of printed silks has (coincidentally?) been parallel with the emergence of the internet and thus the exposure to a generation of young men who now seem to think twas always thus.

post #30097 of 37396

Mostly I agree - while I doubt that a wool tie would actually keep me any warmer than a silk, the soft hand-rolled edges of a woollen tie are a better match for the generally thicker fabrics of cool-weather garments. 

 

I would opine that the ideal time for wearing an untipped tie of this nature is actually autumn. Fully tipped woollen ties are very bulky, which is great if you're generally rugged up in thick clothes. I have some such ties from @Henry Carter as well as a couple of cashmeres from Zegna. They wear very thick but also very luxuriant. (Is that a word?)

post #30098 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Beautiful, but it looks unfinished.... I do understand that for wool ties it makes sense to go unlined to make them lighter. Though of course, wool ties should be worn in winter and thus should be warm.
But unlined, untipped printed silk ties make no sense to me. Perhaps it's to be able to show off the back to prove it's made of ancient thirsts? Do you really think it's elegant to see a flimsy piece of coloured ribbon flapping in the wind?
I know printed ties have always had their place in menswear, but since I'm an old man I remember it wasn't all that long ago that the quality of a  tie was judged by the heft of its woven silk. Printed ties were generally associated with those tacky department store specimens.
The comeback of printed silks has (coincidentally?) been parallel with the emergence of the internet and thus the exposure to a generation of young men who now seem to think twas always thus.

To me it brings to mind the argument of handwork on suiting. Does it add to the utility or durability? Other than spalla camicia... No. If anything it can detract. But as a group, we appreciate craftsmanship and prize handwork for what it is. Just my opinion.
post #30099 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedstate View Post


To me it brings to mind the argument of handwork on suiting. Does it add to the utility or durability? Other than spalla camicia... No. If anything it can detract. But as a group, we appreciate craftsmanship and prize handwork for what it is. Just my opinion.

 

Different, I'd say. Handwork on a suit is not merely eye candy. Actually it's the handwork that you can not see that is contributing to comfort. It used to be that the visible part of a suit's handwork was a reliable indication of the handwork and overall craftsmanship on the inside as well. But since pick stitching has degraded to a mere marketing gimmick, that relation has gone.

A handrolled tie is not more comfortable, AFAIK the only things that matter are the fabric and a handsewn, backstitch (more elastic).

 

 

Note to self: damn, I sound like a grumpy old man today...

post #30100 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Beautiful, but it looks unfinished.... I do understand that for wool ties it makes sense to go unlined to make them lighter. Though of course, wool ties should be worn in winter and thus should be warm.
But unlined, untipped printed silk ties make no sense to me. Perhaps it's to be able to show off the back to prove it's made of ancient thirsts? Do you really think it's elegant to see a flimsy piece of coloured ribbon flapping in the wind?
FWIW all of my un-tipped ties are still lined. I'm generally against un-lined ties as they don't knot anywhere near as well. As Cox mentioned many wool ties can be very thick and tipping can make some extremely bulky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post


A handrolled tie is not more comfortable, AFAIK the only things that matter are the fabric and a handsewn, backstitch (more elastic).
Correct, the slip stitch as they call it.
post #30101 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Different, I'd say. Handwork on a suit is not merely eye candy. Actually it's the handwork that you can not see that is contributing to comfort. It used to be that the visible part of a suit's handwork was a reliable indication of the handwork and overall craftsmanship on the inside as well. But since pick stitching has degraded to a mere marketing gimmick, that relation has gone.
A handrolled tie is not more comfortable, AFAIK the only things that matter are the fabric and a handsewn, backstitch (more elastic).


Note to self: damn, I sound like a grumpy old man today...
While true, what about additions such as hand sewn button holes and the like? Do they add anything other than craftsmanship?
post #30102 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Carter View Post


FWIW all of my un-tipped ties are still lined. I'm generally against un-lined ties as they don't knot anywhere near as well. As Cox mentioned many wool ties can be very thick and tipping can make some extremely bulky.
Correct, the slip stitch as they call it.

 

So if they're still lined, the unlined tips are purely to show off the ancient thirst? ;)

Slip stitch was the term I was looking for, thanks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedstate View Post


While true, what about additions such as hand sewn button holes and the like? Do they add anything other than craftsmanship?

 

Aesthetics mostly, a hand made hole is better to look at (ahem...)

Perhaps there's also some benefit durability wise, I wouldn't know TBH.

post #30103 of 37396

To be clear, an unlined tie pretty much necessitates no tipping, in my understanding (I'm thinking 7-fold, etc.). Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I mean, when I get around to buying some Drake's madder ties I'll have to just accept the lack of tipping because of how good the ties are otherwise. But the more I wear my handrolled Macclesfield from Hober, the less I like it.

post #30104 of 37396
Playing devil's advocate mostly. I do love my hand roll untipped ties but I am annoyed sometimes of the fragility and added precaution necessary while handling.
post #30105 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

So if they're still lined, the unlined tips are purely to show off the ancient thirst? wink.gif
Slip stitch was the term I was looking for, thanks.
Yeah well you can definitely see that the backs aren't white of the printed silks so extra SF street cred for not using the fabled ink jet fabrics that a certain Mr Cerruti has been known to peddle as vintage.

You can also still make a very light lined but un-tipped tie with a 36oz printed silk or a light linen/silk that would be a lot heavier self-tipped. Of course it won't keep you cooler in summer but if everything else is light and airy no reason why a tie can't be either.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)