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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 1880

post #28186 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

 

Can we go back to talking about who owns more ties

@pinkpanther wins.

post #28187 of 37396

First, the suit you linked was linen, so it would look weird with roper sholders.

 

Second, he has said (in his thread) that his people do soft shoulders the best (of their options).

post #28188 of 37396

But if I were in his position, I would go for a more structured shoulders. If he is fine with that then there is no point of discussing this any further. 

post #28189 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodles View Post

No. I just shut the door and pretend I am having an important meeting or a phone call. But if you're outside the conference room, all you're hearing is "shoot" or "capture" or "cheese" as I yell at the camera to snap the picture. 

Trivial, indeed. But it's worth the discussion. Unless I have discussed it many times, which I think is the case.

Kent wang doesn't have shoulder pads because he doesn't care about his sloping shoulders. The same goes for that blogger guy, crompton, he has extremely sloped shoulders, but doesn't get shoulder pads either.

To me it looks bad, but to them it apparently doesn't. Not everyone has the same ideals. Some like looking skinny, or don't want to have that V shape. Nothing wrong with that.

You obviously do want that V shape, so go get yourself a suit with a stronger shoulder expression, whether that's with pads or roped or whatever. Or just go into town and try on a bunch, see how you like it. You can only theoreticize so much, applying it in real life will teach much more. That's why I'm not an academic.
post #28190 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodles View Post

But if I were in his position, I would go for a more structured shoulders. If he is fine with that then there is no point of discussing this any further. 
Not with casual suits. He may also not have the fastidiousness that makes little stuff bother you.
post #28191 of 37396

Once again, I have proven that I need my own thread to ask a dumb question only to conclude that it was an unnecessary question. And the circle of life goes on. 

post #28192 of 37396
Sprout's coming in hot today!
post #28193 of 37396

Not really, I'm just saying it would look strange to the a rumpled linen suit, and then some super structured shoulders.

 

also noodles - you can have soft shoulders... with shoulder extension.

 

 

the sholder sloping monkey is talking about is a totally separate issue.

post #28194 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Not really, I'm just saying it would look strange to the a rumpled linen suit, and then some super structured shoulders.

also noodles - you can have soft shoulders... with shoulder extension.


the sholder sloping monkey is talking about is a totally separate issue.

Sloping shoulders generally require pads. Narrow shoulders extension.
post #28195 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Not really, I'm just saying it would look strange to the a rumpled linen suit, and then some super structured shoulders.
also noodles - you can have soft shoulders... with shoulder extension.


the sholder sloping monkey is talking about is a totally separate issue.
Different morphology. Sucks if you have both though

Noodles, educate thyself
http://www.styleforum.net/t/245858/shoulder-expression

I don't think kent wang has narrow shoulders relative to his hips per say.
post #28196 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

OK, listen up kids, it's time to get technical for a second.

It's obvious that there are some misunderstandings about what we call "shoulder expression". When we refer to the expression of a shoulder we are referring to its shape, or appearance. They can be concave, pagoda, roped, natural, etc. and people have a few misconceptions about how they are achieved and so are frustrated when their suitmaker or tailor is not getting the result they want.

First, let's look at these three shoulder lines in isolation- they all look relatively alike.





Until I add the rest of the shot- now we see that they are very different. Let's call these three a rope shoulder, a natural shoulder, and a bald shoulder.



What makes them look so different? The sleeve. It should be fairly obvious that there is more going on here than just padding- the sleeve pattern is very different on each garment, the fullness distribution is very different, and they have been pressed differently. Remember this.


A rope shoulder has a prominent ridge at the shoulder seam, and this ridge runs along the front crown of the sleeve. What I call a continental shoulder (not pictured- Canali, some Zegna, many European makers) will be flat at the shoulder seam but have a ridge along the front of the crown- the seams have been pressed toward the sleeve. A natural shoulder is flat at the shoulder seam and either flat or with a very light ridge along the front of the crown, the seams have been opened. A bald shoulder is knocked down at the shoulder seam and along the front of the sleeve and has a very low, flat profile, the seams are toward the coat. Manton has covered the seam pressing things in another thread.



In theory, each of these expressions can be achieved with no shoulder padding or lots of shoulder padding. When the garments are being made or designed, it is most common that a more pronounced shoulder like a rope shoulder will have more shoulder padding than a natural shoulder, but it's not necessarily true. Also note that the word "natural shoulder" refers to its expression, and does not mean a shoulder with no padding in it- it just means a shoulder expression whose shape is rounder, and more like the shape of a person's shoulder.

What's my point?

1.\tIf you have a garment with a rope or a very square shoulder, it is not enough to take the pad out and assume that the expression will change, that it will suddenly droop down to a round, soft shoulder. You have to remove the sleeve, cut it down and remove a lot of the fullness, and you may have to open the shoulder seam as well and adjust it for a lower shoulder (really, you should) and then reset it with a different type of sleeve wadding, also specifically designed for the shoulder expression in question. To get good results at this requires a very competent tailor.

2. It is not sufficient to say "no padding" to a tailor or suitmaker and expect the expression will be soft and round- the pattern must be made like that in the first place. So if you looking for soft and round, find a tailor who knows how to do it, or find a ready-made model whose expression is what you are looking for when buying MTM. Do not expect that the expression can be adjusted when ordering an MTM garment- if you try on a suit in the store and the shoulder is more square than you like, try a different model. Period.
 
post #28197 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post


Sloping shoulders generally require pads. Narrow shoulders extension.

yeah, but he (noodles) is more concerned with his narrow shoulders rather  than sloping shoulders.

 

(I agree with you, just saying it isn't what noodles as looking for).

 

 

basically noodles:

 

Amount of padding - one subject

Type of shoulder (roped, soft, spalla, etc) -  on subject

amount of sholder extention - another subject

 

can be related, but don't need to be.

post #28198 of 37396

I've been doing shoulder shrugs with dumbbells at home. But I've also been doing shoulder shrugs at work here and there and it was pretty awkward when someone caught me in the elevator. Very awkward.

 

Yes, I don't mind the sloping shoulders. I am more concerned about the darn puny looking shoulders. 

post #28199 of 37396
Personally I like the look of sloped shoulders. Maybe that's just to make myself feel better.
post #28200 of 37396
Sloping shoulders only look bad, at least IMO, if hips are wide relative to shoulder width. Then we are verging on a feminine look but hey it's 2015. It doesn't matter biggrin.gif
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