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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 1746

post #26176 of 37392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post


Not just Jews were killed. A lot of people who were judged to be inferior because of heritage, skin colour, disabilities, political views, or simply being part of the resistance were killed as well. The Germans committed unspeakable acts, and yet you'll be hard pressed to find a European that actually hates Germans. My grandparents lived through the war, but they didn't hate Germans. You don't need an apology to be able to forgive.

Besides, most people that actually committed those acts are dead or on their way out anyways. You shouldn't keep the son responsible for the actions of his father, or in this case, the actions of his great-grandfather.


a) I'm more than well aware that Jews were not the only people persecuted by the Nazis. But they were the primary focus of Nazi ideology and suffered more than any other group (full disclosure: a great-grandmother was killed by Nazis for being Jewish, though I don't know if it was in a concentration camp, and I'm named after a Holocaust survivor. So I could be more oriented towards their plight. But yeah, I'm very familiar with what they did to homosexuals, gypsies, communists, etc etc etc)

 

b) I disagree. It is unreasonable to forgive someone who doesn't acknowledge wrong doing. It's nice if you do, but it certainly isn't something which should be expected.

 

c) you and I are from very individualistic cultures. The idea of collective or shared guilt makes little sense to us. But it is natural in collective cultures. For example, when the Sewol ferry sank in South Korea a couple years ago, the entire nation felt a sense of guilt and shame, and people from all over the country came to the site of the accident to apologize to the families of those lost. And it wasn't out of any sense of duty or obligation. You watch the interviews and you can see true, heartfelt sorrow in those apologizing. So "everyone is already dead" doesn't make a difference to them. And it may even be beside the point when you have living politicians ducking Japan's actions in East Asia (and SE Asia)

post #26177 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post

Not just Jews were killed. A lot of people who were judged to be inferior because of heritage, skin colour, disabilities, political views, or simply being part of the resistance were killed as well. The Germans committed unspeakable acts, and yet you'll be hard pressed to find a European that actually hates Germans. My grandparents lived through the war, but they didn't hate Germans. You don't need an apology to be able to forgive.

Besides, most people that actually committed those acts are dead or on their way out anyways. You shouldn't keep the son responsible for the actions of his father, or in this case, the actions of his great-grandfather.

Former West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in front of a memorial at Warsaw while he was in office. Sure, it was just a symbolic gesture that may have not amounted to much practically. But it was done nevertheless. No Japanese PM has ever done that in China or Korea.
post #26178 of 37392
Thread Starter 

Well, Abe kneels at the shrine where members of Unit 731 are buried, which is sort of the sa...oh. No. Total opposite.

 

----

 

But hey, we can all agree that Admiral Yi Sun-sin was a total badass, right?

 

----

 

Also, from my experience, Koreans are very racist. Particularly towards Africans, African-Americans, and SE Asians or those from the Indian subcontinent. Towards the Japanese, they aren't racist, just angry.

post #26179 of 37392
Let's just say I've witnessed the racism or whatever you might call it against the Japanese. Even little kids, like 5 or 6 years old, will say truly bad stuff when they find out someone is Japanese. It's horrible.
post #26180 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanagi View Post

Former West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in front of a memorial at Warsaw while he was in office. Sure, it was just a symbolic gesture that may have not amounted to much practically. But it was done nevertheless. No Japanese PM has ever done that in China or Korea.

Not sure why you're still comparing Germany to Japan.

Hmm....If we're still doing the 'Murica thing, we should also post a picture of the Japanese internment camps they had in the U.S. Interesting no one brought that up yet, considering it was America and U.S. In the first pic.
post #26181 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodles View Post

If you don't know the history and if you are going to just reference links, please stop.

Let me put it very simply using an example. Would Jewish people take Germany's apologies seriously if the highest ranking German politicians annually visited a memorial cemetery that has war criminals?! That's what Japan is doing. Google Yasukuni Shrine.

This is just one simple example.

No Ring Jackets then?
post #26182 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Not sure why you're still comparing Germany to Japan.

Because I quoted someone who was comparing Germany to Japan. Hence, the reply.
Quote:
Hmm....If we're still doing the 'Murica thing, we should also post a picture of the Japanese internment camps they had in the U.S. Interesting no one brought that up yet, considering it was America and U.S. In the first pic.

The U.S. has issued reparations to Japanese-American internees. People who try to whitewash or downplay what happened (like Michelle Malkin) are rightly ridiculed. I don't see how the comparison is appropriate.
post #26183 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post

Let's just say I've witnessed the racism or whatever you might call it against the Japanese. Even little kids, like 5 or 6 years old, will say truly bad stuff when they find out someone is Japanese. It's horrible.

I have never lived in the U.K. and won't comment on British experiences, but pretty much every Asian American has experienced what you described. It's not unique to the Japanese. I seriously doubt that five or six year olds actually know enough to genuinely differentiate among Asians. It's more just "you look different, so it's funny."
post #26184 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanagi View Post

I have never lived in the U.K. and won't comment on British experiences, but pretty much every Asian American has experienced what you described. It's not unique to the Japanese. I seriously doubt that five or six year olds actually know enough to genuinely differentiate among Asians. It's more just "you look different, so it's funny."

I was specifically talking about Chinese and Korean kids saying stuff about the war to a Japanese person.

Anyways, let's call it a day. It was an interesting discussion, but I'm sure we can all agree that all forms of racism and xenophobia are bad. Here's hoping we can one day live in a world where a person is only judged on their own actions, and not on their race, nationality, gender, etc.

To keep it clothing related, I've heard that exquisite trimmings is receiving a large number of neats next week, so for anyone looking for a couple, it might be best to keep an eye out. The best patterns in the 3.5" width tend to sell out quite quickly.
post #26185 of 37392
We are not talking about racism against Japanese. And their experience of racism has nothing to do with their war crimes. I am talking about a country that is unrepentant of its war crimes and even distorts history. They say comfort women volunteered or never existed. The US wants a ROK-Japan alliance to stand against China. So the US is telling Korea to just move on. We cannot move on when one party that inflicted so much harm has yet to fully apologize. Still visits that shrine, still does not acknowledge its crimes, still treats war criminals as heroes. Maybe Monkeyface should take a visit to Nanking or Unit 731 site or Korea.
post #26186 of 37392
-THE END-

NO MORE TALK OF WARS.
post #26187 of 37392
Thread Starter 
Agreed. Tweed and toilets, everyone?
post #26188 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodles View Post

I am talking about a country that is unrepentant of its war crimes and even distorts history.

 

I might have mentioned this before but when I was going to JC back in the late 90s there were Japanese international students who thought the history section on WW2 in the Pacific was American propaganda. America has a lot of problems, but acknowledging that we did fucked up things (at least among most groups) isn't something we have as big a problem with as most others.

post #26189 of 37392
Uhh, maybe we should tell that to the south... They're trying to change the history books. And the science books...
post #26190 of 37392
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Uhh, maybe we should tell that to the south... They're trying to change the history books.

 

"The south" is a big place with lots of different people in it. Some are in denial, for sure, but they are a minority even if it doesn't seem like it. The craziest ideas are often professed by the loudest voices. Unfortunately some of those voices happen to be in government but one thing I learned as a transplanted Californian is that many of the stereotypes I had about the south were wrong. This isn't to discount the negatives, of course.

 

Edit: A much bigger problem is a general ignorance about history, which is a nationwide problem but which manifests in different ways in different places. I've spoken about this before so I won't rehash old stories, but misconceptions abound about things like the Civil War in the north and the south alike. In the south it happens to take the form of white washing the horrors of slavery, which is remarkably distasteful. Northerners and westerners white wash their histories just as much, it's just not quite so distasteful as trying to say that slavery either wasn't that bad or never really happened. Anyway, as you can see I like to talk about the Civil War, so I'll stop before I get too impassioned! 

 

:D

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