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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 1635

post #24511 of 37396

That's a really useful compilation, Mr. Six, since the light to mid-toned jacket is something lots of us are drawn to but challenged to pair.  Mid-grey and dove grey look good, as I had thought they would, but the greyish green is the surprise winner for me--I think it's a really subtle, pleasing combination.  

post #24512 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Six View Post

Sorry, I didn't have time to continue Round Whatever of the Charcoal Trouser Debate. I had to watch LeBron do LeBron things. But I do have this for you ...

 

Quote:

It would be great, if Mr. Six is up for it, to have a few shots of that beautiful Formosa with different trouser combinations, for all our edification.

 

I hate to excuse crap photos, so I'll just say that these are crap photos that I took quickly for myself, but I agree that it might result in some interesting conversation.
 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Greyish brown

 

Mid-grey

 

Sort of Air Force grey/blue

 

Greyish green

 

Cream

 

Grey flannel

 

Lighter mid-grey

 

Dove grey

 

Navy

 


This is a lesson for those that claim that grey jackets aren't versatile. Buy a textured and heavily patterned grey jacket and in theory it is even more versatile than navy since you can wear it with like colors. I have never seen someone wear a navy jacket on blue pants that looked good. Grey on the other hand

One more grey on grey example
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
IMG_5303mod.jpg
post #24513 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dlwgosh View Post

Take that to the extreme and those people would have multiple copies of the same outfit hanging in their closets, I guess.

Perhaps, but I think that that would not be necessary. There are a myriad of optimal color, pattern and scale combinations within most pairings.

I would even say that once you have two optimal items together the third optimal item could be a variety of items. For example, if you were wearing a navy suit and a light blue shirt I don't that a green tie would be any more or less optimal than a brown tie, or visa versa. Or that a blue suit would be any more optimal then a gray suit in that case.

Personally, I don't find that maximum optimization is always what I am for, but I don't think that it would narrow person to only one outfit.
post #24514 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

Personally, I don't find that maximum optimization is always what I am for, but I don't think that it would narrow person to only one outfit.

Agreed. Optimal to me means more like ...

- silhouette of outfit is ideal for the wearer, and consistent on top and bottom
- textures and fabric weights make sense for season and coherence
- and then stuff Stitchy already said that I don't need to reiterate

I think you can have a lot of variety even after including all of this - you'll just have variety that actually makes sense, too.
post #24515 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post


I hardly see any charcoal odd trousers in London. Mid grey to sligtly darker grey, yes, charcoal, no.

Just because Americans wear it doesn't make it right. If we go by what regular Americans wear we'd all be wearing chinos with white trainers and sports socks and some sort of oversized polo shirt. If I had to pick one look that's nearly equally common in all states and cities in the good ol' USA it'd be that one.

 

thank you

post #24516 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyface View Post

Just because Americans wear it doesn't make it right.

 

So you admit that Americans wear them. :D

 

Like I said, I'm not making a value judgment on whether they are "right" or not. Simply that what the other person said about them only being associated with suits is wrong wrong WRONG. :lol:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

 

thank you

 

He actually agreed with my point, dum dum. lol

post #24517 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Greyish brown

 

Mid-grey

 

Sort of Air Force grey/blue

 

Greyish green

 

Cream

 

Grey flannel

 

Lighter mid-grey

 

Dove grey

 

Navy

 


This is a lesson for those that claim that grey jackets aren't versatile. Buy a textured and heavily patterned grey jacket and in theory it is even more versatile than navy since you can wear it with like colors. I have never seen someone wear a navy jacket on blue pants that looked good. Grey on the other hand
 

 

 

Grey jackets aren't versatile because-

 

1. grey trews are  the most versatile trews

2. trews should contrast with the SC and

3  trews should be lighter than the SC.

 

So it's difficult to find a pair of trews that is both sufficiently contrasting and  lighter  to go with a grey SC.

 

I agree with Manton that  grey/grey combo that works  is a light grey plaid SC with dark grey trews.

post #24518 of 37396

I think it is during discussions such as these where the dogma that many complain exists in SF is formed and fomented. Where "rules" are constructed from opinions and beliefs and their foundation is attributed to lore, etc. Of course, this is the nature of traditions, but it explains why the norms here exist as they do. One might think it was the actions of specific taste-makers, but it really isn't. While Manton is/was a force, it is hard to argue that Greg isn't a taste maker, and he likes navy odd trousers. Pingson is also a fan of navy and charcoal odd trousers as well as northern lights, and he is widely regarded as one of the best dressers on the forum. Then there are those like Tira, who chart their own course and look awesome doing it. 

post #24519 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post


Grey jackets aren't versatile because-

1. grey trews are  the most versatile trews
2. trews should contrast with the SC and
3  trews should be lighter than the SC.


So it's difficult to find a pair of trews that is both sufficiently contrasting and  lighter  to go with a grey SC.

I agree with Manton that  grey/grey combo that works  is a light grey plaid SC with dark grey trews.

I disagree with the statements in bold. If you have a heavily patterned grey jacket and a textured but plain grey pants, then you have the required visual break between jacket and pants that is within reason and you will never confuse the combo for a suit fit. This only seems to work for grey though, I can't think of any other color where this works (Tan? Nah!).
Mr. Six's gives examples where grey jackets works with a variety of colored pants; tan, green, blue, brown etc. So why are we having an argument on it's versatility? biggrin.gif

I can understand if you simply don't like grey jackets but let's not extend it beyond personal preference. The issue with grey jackets in IMO is picking the right type of jacket.

Point 3 has been debunked time and time again so I'll file that under personal preference

Grey jacket with brown example
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
IMG_2233%20-%20Copy.JPG
post #24520 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

 

So you admit that Americans wear them. :D

 

Like I said, I'm not making a value judgment on whether they are "right" or not. Simply that what the other person said about them only being associated with suits is wrong wrong WRONG. :lol:

 

 

He actually agreed with my point, dum dum. lol

 

I don't think you understood what I originally wrote.

 

Also, SF is a place where we try to dress better, so I'm not sure exactly what your purpose in this conversation is? You keep asserting that Americans wear charcoal, which is irrelevant to whether charcoal looks good or not, and why SF dislikes charcoal pants. Other than being argumentative I'm not sure what you're trying to do?

post #24521 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I don't think you understood what I originally wrote.

Also, SF is a place where we try to dress better, so I'm not sure exactly what your purpose in this conversation is? You keep asserting that Americans wear charcoal, which is irrelevant to whether charcoal looks good or not, and why SF dislikes charcoal pants. Other than being argumentative I'm not sure what you're trying to do?

I'm not sure I can explain it to you any better than I have in the last day. If you are still confused all I can recommend is that you re-read what I said. Carefully. Otherwise I can't imagine we have anything further to say to one another on the subject.
post #24522 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaJen View Post
 

While Manton is/was a force, it is hard to argue that Greg isn't a taste maker, and he likes navy odd trousers. Pingson is also a fan of navy and charcoal odd trousers as well as northern lights, and he is widely regarded as one of the best dressers on the forum. Then there are those like Tira, who chart their own course and look awesome doing it. 

 

I agree with all of this. However, I will say that I do not think anyone you mentioned has been as influential as Manton during the earlier years of the forum. He enjoyed an almost rockstar like popularity here. If you have any doubt about this look at the forums that he still posts in today. As soon as he posts he gets quoted and responded to unlike any other poster that I have seen. While all the people you mentioned are popular, dress well, and are influential, none of them has had the impact of Manton and a few others. Realize that I don't think it's a one man show. He, however, literally wrote the book on CM here on Style Forum.

post #24523 of 37396
@kulata, Mr. Six's jacket does not grey to me, so unless it's coming in all wrong on my monitor, I think he's not proving that about grey jackets.

Also, I don't think Pliny's last two points have been debunked / are incorrect unless you assume that the word "always" is in there. While some outfits can look good when jacket is lighter than trouser, in a large majority of successful odd jacket fits, the jacket is darker. Contrast helps in most cases too.
post #24524 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

 

I agree with all of this. However, I will say that I do not think anyone you mentioned has been as influential as Manton during the earlier years of the forum. He enjoyed an almost rockstar like popularity here. If you have any doubt about this look at the forums that he still posts in today. As soon as he posts he gets quoted and responded to unlike any other poster that I have seen. While all the people you mentioned are popular, dress well, and are influential, none of them has had the impact of Manton and a few others. Realize that I don't think it's a one man show. He, however, literally wrote the book on CM here on Style Forum.

 

Agreed. Personally, I prefer how the other 3 I named dress though.

Of course, Alan Flusser wrote several books on CM, including the guide to pattern combinations to which most of us adhere, if not knowingly, and his style is certainly NOT within SF norms. 

As an aside, writing a book on a topic does not make one an expert on it. I could write a book on any number of topics and get it published (and not through vanity press) with ease. Once you have a relationship with a publisher/acquisitions editor it's a breeze. That is why, in my field, writing books holds no stead. 

post #24525 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaJen View Post
 

As an aside, writing a book on a topic does not make one an expert on it.

 

That's true. But Manton is undoubtedly an expert. Then again, Deepak Chopra doesn't seem to be an expert in anything, but I can't count how many books he has published.

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