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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe) - Page 745

post #11161 of 37396
I think some people are just plain cheap smile.gif

I'm assuming that most men have at least 3-5 pairs of dress shoes in rotation. Let's say they last you for 15 years (maybe more) each after being re-soled say 2 or 3 times per pair over the life span of the shoe. Is that not enough value for the money spent? Stop being such cheapskates and buy a new pair of shoes after 15 years, or buy more shoes for your rotation. Why would you want to wear the same pair of shoes for 20 years anyways?
post #11162 of 37396

@jssdc

 

Yeah, I meant the last comment in jest.

 

I think the point that gets lost in those old threads is that DFW is correct about the structural issue: cementing is inferior to stitching, and GYs involve cementing at a crucial structural step.

 

I don't think clear headed thinkers disputed that.  What is left open is the actual "peril" a shoe owner faces given the nature of gemming in a random pair of GY welted shoes. I think by DFW's own admission, it is not high, but it is not zero. There was quite a bit of conflation of claims among discussants in those threads. They are not fun to read, which leads to obscuring the basic lesson.

 

What I do find interesting is his claim that Blake-Rapid is better than GY welting and would not be more costly to produce. I'm curious why the industry has not moved in that direction. It might just be that gemming tends to hold, or it might be that a person who can afford to buy EG, G&G, C&J, etc. also tends to have the manufacturer recraft the shoe and the rest really can't tell the difference. The disadvantage of Blake-Rapid or Blake is that, as I understand it, a standard cobbler cannot resole it.

post #11163 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRaphael View Post

If executed correct, I believe they look spectacular with navy, despite the high contrast that the make up provides: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-um_UzJs0VHc/Uo-ub6aDxOI/AAAAAAAAEJE/3CJRRLBqkrM/s1600/022B1442.jpg (picture is member j ingevaldsson's, I hope he doesn't mind). Shoes are Bestetti.

Thoughts?
This is pretty much what I was trying to recommend against.
post #11164 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post
 

@jssdc

 

Yeah, I meant the last comment in jest.

 

I think the point that gets lost in those old threads is that DFW is correct about the structural issue: cementing is inferior to stitching, and GYs involve cementing at a crucial structural step.

 

I don't think clear headed thinkers disputed that.  What is left open is the actual "peril" a shoe owner faces given the nature of gemming in a random pair of GY welted shoes. I think by DFW's own admission, it is not high, but it is not zero. There was quite a bit of conflation of claims among discussants in those threads. They are not fun to read, which leads to obscuring the basic lesson.

 

What I do find interesting is his claim that Blake-Rapid is better than GY welting and would not be more costly to produce. I'm curious why the industry has not moved in that direction. It might just be that gemming tends to hold, or it might be that a person who can afford to buy EG, G&G, C&J, etc. also tends to have the manufacturer recraft the shoe and the rest really can't tell the difference. The disadvantage of Blake-Rapid or Blake is that, as I understand it, a standard cobbler cannot resole it.

 

David Foster Wallace is on SF? I thought he was dead!

 

I have heard differently about Blake-Rapid and Blake stitched shoes. IIRC, Blake-Rapids can be easily resoled by most cobblers, but Blakes require specialized and uncommon machinery. Perhaps I have misremembered, though. I am not a shoe expert by any means.

 

I read a thread some time ago detailing the differences in machinery required for different soles, and what each resoling process entails, but I cannot for the life of me find it now :confused:

post #11165 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

This is pretty much what I was trying to recommend against.

Couldn't agree more with Greg in this one.
post #11166 of 37396

I was really hoping for more posts about gemming

post #11167 of 37396
Vass antique cognac: OK with navy and dark grey or too much contrast like a tan-ish shoe? What about less-than-navy blue and mid-grey?

I wear my antic cognac austerity brogues less than I probably should because I can't tell whether the contrast is too high.

Also, my iPhone has learned to autocorrect other things to "Vass." I consider that a great victory.
post #11168 of 37396
On matters gastronomique: Going out to dinner next week w/ auntie in NYC. She has reservations to both Le Bernardin and Sushi Nakazawa. Never been to either, though one has been around forever and the other is new kid on the block. I love sushi (don't dream of it however) and all manner of seafood. I have a feeling either choice would be excellent, though very different experiences.

Must decide between the two soon, my choice. Thoughts?
post #11169 of 37396
^ Le Bernardin. In a place like NYC, there are a lot of great sushi places that don't have the hype. Le Bernardin is absolutely worth going to, though, so I'd go there.
post #11170 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

I like cognac/tan/chestnut. It's how you pair it. I don't mind the pairing with navy but I think it's a way of calling attention to oneself that is unnecessary in most circumstances and there are more pleasing options.
 

 

It's the dandified look (no judgement)  I want to avoid.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

I'm not sure how to proceed, though Meermin is looking better now. I look at my GY shoes now with the ever so slightest level of dread satisfied.gif .

You needn't. This is an SF-only sort or debate driven by those seeking exclusivity by rubbishing others things, and some others (eg DWF) genuinely devoted to preserving an ancient craft that (in theory at least) is under threat from mechanization. If you read DWF carefully he's really just making the point (repeatedly and in different threads) that any deviation from HW is less good, and therefore bad. The supposed GYW drawback of needing a shoe redrafted as opposed to resoled is a non-issue for me as well. Most cobblers are incompetent, those who aren't (eg B Nelson) cost nearly as much as the factory, so why not send it back there? At which point who cares if the gemming has slipped?.

truth  

 

I had to give up on GYW shoes-   no fun wearing a couple of ticking time bombs-  the gemming could explode any second   :devil:

 

 

Wouldn't most of us have  between say 10 and  50 pairs of dress shoes?  so not even a favorite shoe gets worn more than a couple dozen times a year.   Chances of gem failure are pretty remote.   Even Blake/rapide is fine if it's a nice looking shoe, IMO-    Mind u, I'd be howled down if I said that in some other threads.  

 

I understand DWF being righteous about hand-welting in terms of his commitment to artisanal rather than mechanized processes, and all power to DWF and Vass and StC for keeping up a hand-making tradition that is a little bit magical, but a gemmed shoe isn't inferior functionally.

post #11171 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

^ Le Bernardin. In a place like NYC, there are a lot of great sushi places that don't have the hype. Le Bernardin is absolutely worth going to, though, so I'd go there.

This seems like sound advice. Hype may be the key word, though NYTimes review was absolutely gushing ( same w/ Le Bernardin though, for that matter, w/ multiple 4 star reviews over the years, Michelin stars, etc).

I think you've helped me decide--thanks.
post #11172 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by circumspice View Post

I was really hoping for more posts about gemming

What in particular? There are old threads one can plow through although a lot of needless hot air. But I would put it down to three main points

1. Gemming, in its reliance on cement, has the disadvantages of that method relative to hand stitched and if it fails there are some substantial negative consequences that can only be addressed adequately by recrafting at the original factory.

2. The probability of a given type and make of shoe failing in respect of gemming and various circumstances is unknown (e.g. Does walking in rain in leather soles increase likelihood of gemming coming unglued?)

3. That it is likely that such failure will practically not be an issue for those who properly care for and rotate their shoes.

I was surprised by 1. Made Meermin lineo maestro more attractive. Most of these points get lost in the back and forth of older threads.
post #11173 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Six View Post

Vass antique cognac: OK with navy and dark grey or too much contrast like a tan-ish shoe? What about less-than-navy blue and mid-grey?
Medium to dark browns (I include antique cognac in that range) are versatile and all the combinations you mentioned are in good taste as far as I'm concerned. The typical noob mistake with darker shoes is a bit of the same actually : pairing them with trousers that are way too light. It isn't quite as bad as light shoes with dark trousers but that's really when the tan/chestnut shoes are at their best.
post #11174 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Medium to dark browns (I include antique cognac in that range) are versatile and all the combinations you mentioned are in good taste as far as I'm concerned. The typical noob mistake with darker shoes is a bit of the same actually : pairing them with trousers that are way too light. It isn't quite as bad as light shoes with dark trousers but that's really when the tan/chestnut shoes are at their best.

IMHO the light pants/dark shoes combo works best when shoes are suede. Hardliners will argue that suede shouldn't be worn in summer, when light pants are most often worn, but this objection is too pedantic for most.
post #11175 of 37396
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post


IMHO the light pants/dark shoes combo works best when shoes are suede. Hardliners will argue that suede shouldn't be worn in summer, when light pants are most often worn, but this objection is too pedantic for most.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who says "no" to suede loafers in the summer?

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