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What do Fitness Trainers know?

post #1 of 33
6/8/07 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
I presume there are some fitness trainer certifications that most trainers get. Are they similar? And what do they learn? Are they always right?

The reason I ask is that I've been using the Starting Strength book on my own lately. But at my gym I see the trainers helping the members there, and they are telling them different information. Teaching them leg press on the machine etc, when Starting Strength says no one should ever be doing leg press.
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post #2 of 33
6/8/07 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
I presume there are some fitness trainer certifications that most trainers get. Are they similar? And what do they learn? Are they always right? The reason I ask is that I've been using the Starting Strength book on my own lately. But at my gym I see the trainers helping the members there, and they are telling them different information. Teaching them leg press on the machine etc, when Starting Strength says no one should ever be doing leg press.
It just depends. Leg press is a fine exercise in and of itself. While it isn't necessarily as good for you as squat, it's much easier to do and safer, and many people aren't interested in doing squats regardless of its many benefits. You can certainly build good leg definition with leg press and still get many of the benefits of squats with them. I'd agree that personal trainers may not necessarily be the most knowledgeable but they should be able to help their clientele which usually know nothing at all about fitness.
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post #3 of 33
6/8/07 at 3:19pm
If Starting Strength says that no one should ever be doing leg presses, the book is garbage. Leg presses are an appropriate part of an exercise routine and may be factored in for a variety of reasons in lieu of or in addition to squats.

In addition, qualified and well trained trainers can improve virtually any lifter's routine. For the beginning, there is considerable instruction. For the more experienced lifter, changes to form can be invaluable.
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post #4 of 33
6/8/07 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
I presume there are some fitness trainer certifications that most trainers get. Are they similar? And what do they learn? Are they always right?

The reason I ask is that I've been using the Starting Strength book on my own lately. But at my gym I see the trainers helping the members there, and they are telling them different information. Teaching them leg press on the machine etc, when Starting Strength says no one should ever be doing leg press.

Trainer certification requirements can vary widely and theres really no set standards. The most recognized are ACE, ACSM, and NSCA, with ACE definately being the least rigorous of the three. There's really a large variation in trainer quality and like anything else you'd want to do your research before just picking one. I'd say in many ways the squat is superior to the leg press machine, however for beginners the leg press machine can be a little easier to use and less risky. Some gyms don't like their trainers teaching squats because they consider it a risky exercise.
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post #5 of 33
6/8/07 at 3:57pm
I agree with Gradstudent- In addition squats may be inappropriate if you do not have a spotter, are recovering from an injury, or are concerned that your form is not quite right and do not have someone to assist. Most trainers with whom I speak do not want to train on squats because the risk of injury is high if not performed correctly and the risk of liability in a lawsuit is therefore higher.
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post #6 of 33
6/8/07 at 4:36pm
It can take some work to find a trainer that is both willing to teach movements like squats and is good at teaching. Of course, it is worth it to find such a trainer. They can speed progress along faster than you would think is possible. Form makes a huge difference, especially as movements get more complex (snatches, clean and jerks, etc).

That said, if your goal isn't athleticism, but rather health or bodybuilding, your trainer should obviously be biased more towards those types of goals.
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post #7 of 33
6/8/07 at 4:51pm
I agree if your training for athletiscim the squat is going to be key and I think thats why starting strength stresses it more, because of its focus.
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post #8 of 33
6/8/07 at 5:08pm
Thread Starter 
sorry, this is not about the squat per se, I may not even be remembering the book right. I'm just talking about details with regards to technique and differing opinions.

For example, if I go step by step and learn the bench press form from my book, what value is it if the trainer at my gym comes up to me and says "hey I think you should hold the bar higher."

things of that nature.
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post #9 of 33
6/8/07 at 5:36pm
Learning from a book is great, and I strongly suggest you read as much as possible about these topics, however, having a trained, experienced set of eyes evaluate your form, and give you tips and tricks catered specifically to your needs is very valuable if you are serious about attaining your goals.

The squat is just a prime example because it can be dangerous when done incorrectly, but hugely beneficial when done properly.

A better example is an olympic lift like the snatch or clean and jerk. I watch videos of competitions, read books, etc, but sometimes I'll find a trainer or a coach that can say "here, try this instead" and suddenly that sticking point just clicks and I can break through a plateau. I might think I'm having a problem during a certain phase, but the reality is that I've screwed up the movement in the previous phase and the screw up really manifests itself later on in the lift. A good trainer will spot the screw up and be able to say "no, you're messing up here, we need to change this".
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post #10 of 33
6/8/07 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc237 View Post
If Starting Strength says that no one should ever be doing leg presses, the book is garbage. Leg presses are an appropriate part of an exercise routine and may be factored in for a variety of reasons in lieu of or in addition to squats.

In addition, qualified and well trained trainers can improve virtually any lifter's routine. For the beginning, there is considerable instruction. For the more experienced lifter, changes to form can be invaluable.

Sorry dude, but countless high school strength coaches have relied on that book to build strength on their athletes. I understand what you are saying about the leg press, but the book has a particular audience and that audience does not include your average gym goer who is afraid of doing squats. The book isn't written for people with injuries, for old people, for people looking to "just tone" - it's written for people who are serious about putting on muscle and increasing their strength.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post
Learning from a book is great, and I strongly suggest you read as much as possible about these topics, however, having a trained, experienced set of eyes evaluate your form, and give you tips and tricks catered specifically to your needs is very valuable if you are serious about attaining your goals.

The squat is just a prime example because it can be dangerous when done incorrectly, but hugely beneficial when done properly.

A better example is an olympic lift like the snatch or clean and jerk. I watch videos of competitions, read books, etc, but sometimes I'll find a trainer or a coach that can say "here, try this instead" and suddenly that sticking point just clicks and I can break through a plateau. I might think I'm having a problem during a certain phase, but the reality is that I've screwed up the movement in the previous phase and the screw up really manifests itself later on in the lift. A good trainer will spot the screw up and be able to say "no, you're messing up here, we need to change this".

I agree with this; however, the only caution is to think about what kind of coach you are getting. A personal trainer at your gym might not know squat about squats (pardon the pun). In order to learn proper form on squats and olympic lifts, I would seek the counsel of a qualified strength coach - not a gym personal trainer.
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post #11 of 33
6/8/07 at 6:12pm
A quick glance at their resume should tell you what you need to know in order to choose someone qualified for strength coaching vs fitness vs whatever. Sometimes it is surprising who you'll find working as a trainer in a gym. Know what you want, and then look for someone that fits.
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post #12 of 33
6/8/07 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post
A quick glance at their resume should tell you what you need to know in order to choose someone qualified for strength coaching vs fitness vs whatever. Sometimes it is surprising who you'll find working as a trainer in a gym. Know what you want, and then look for someone that fits.

Greg Anderson was working at a gym in Milpitas...
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post #13 of 33
6/8/07 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
I presume there are some fitness trainer certifications that most trainers get. Are they similar? And what do they learn? Are they always right? The reason I ask is that I've been using the Starting Strength book on my own lately. But at my gym I see the trainers helping the members there, and they are telling them different information. Teaching them leg press on the machine etc, when Starting Strength says no one should ever be doing leg press.
They are not similar, they vary greatly. A lot of chain gyms only requires ACE P/T, which is pretty crap. Or, they have their own proprietary certification they make their employees pay for. The better certifications require you to have a 4 year degree in exercise science and have x hundred hours of experience before sitting for the exam. These exams vary from the lowest (ACE P/T) to extremely elite requiring a masters degree (ACSM Exercise Specialist). I have a degree in exercise and sport science and am NCSA CSCS and CPT certified, I think these are pretty good certs but having them doesn't mean you know everything (as I don't). If your book is saying nobody should ever be doing leg presses, then throw it out, btw.
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post #14 of 33
6/8/07 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
sorry, this is not about the squat per se, I may not even be remembering the book right. I'm just talking about details with regards to technique and differing opinions.

For example, if I go step by step and learn the bench press form from my book, what value is it if the trainer at my gym comes up to me and says "hey I think you should hold the bar higher."

things of that nature.

It depends on the situation. Often, trainers will know the proper technical and safety cues per exercise. It could be he meant by bringing the bar too low you were putting your rotator cuff muscles in danger, or that you should push all the way up ( you should)
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post #15 of 33
6/9/07 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post
If your book is saying nobody should ever be doing leg presses, then throw it out, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
The book isn't written for people with injuries, for old people, for people looking to "just tone" - it's written for people who are serious about putting on muscle and increasing their strength.


You guys might want to actually read the book before telling someone to throw it out.
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