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Made in Italy, by Chinese workers - Page 2

post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

Dear Naïve, Jr,

I have no idea wtf you are babbling about whenever you post. I assume that English is not your first language however I doubt that is the primary cause of your babbling.

Filson employs many Asian people in their Seattle factory.
The pictures are from an article in the Seattle Times several years ago.

You do seem to get the point of my babbling, although you are so concerned and confused by my inadequate articulation you overlook your own failure to clarify if the Filson employees in Seattle work in similar conditions to the Chinese photographed above. Some people have to work very hard, other need to work hard just to think clearly.
post #17 of 40
T
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

lurker[1].gif

Anyone read "Deluxe: How Luxury Lost it's Luster"? Good stuff..,

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to bring this literature to my attention. I am impressed to hear somebody contribute in a manner which seems to do justice to the thread's theme of inhumanity exploiting humanity. Since I am often accused - here and on that Filson fan club thread - of not writing proper English and lack of virtue enabling respectful exchange, I want to check if those clothes I buy are made in subhuman exploitation. But I have the impression those posters who complain about my babbling must be far removed from any injustice.
post #18 of 40

The common theme with the majority of big name brands is that they do indeed use the cheapest labor they can find.  This allows them to spend more money on advertising, which is what brings in the profit by leading to mass sales.   People are into brand names.  Once they deem a particular brand name "cool", they buy it and really don't pay attention to who makes it.  It's all smoke and mirrors for a lot of companies it seems. We live in an age where BS is the norm. 

post #19 of 40

n.


Edited by Thearkly - 1/8/14 at 6:28pm
post #20 of 40

The babbling thing may be from a overly verbose translation engine- just my guess. 

 

The issue that I have is not whether something is made in a particular country- it is whether the item is made by underpaid "slave" labor.  Items made in USA, Japan, Germany, Italy, etc. by local nationals are generally made with more pride and attention to detail.  The worker has a vested interest in the success of the company.  Subsequently, when a worker makes a living wage he/she will have expendable income to shop, go on vacation, etc.  This reinvests those dollars back into the economy and creates tax revenue.....etc., etc. and so forth.   

 

In regard to American businesses like Bill's, Allen Edmonds and others that still manufacture their goods in America- you are going to have to pay a much higher retail price for these items to offset the labor costs.  Sadly, most companies have moved their factories overseas because Americans have voted with their wallets.  Americans have insisted on buying their stuff at prices only slave labor can provide.

post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanGent View Post
In regard to American businesses like Bill's, Allen Edmonds and others that still manufacture their goods in America- you are going to have to pay a much higher retail price for these items to offset the labor costs.  Sadly, most companies have moved their factories overseas because Americans have voted with their wallets.  Americans have insisted on buying their stuff at prices only slave labor can provide.

 

A problem evident in Europe as well. I really see an increasing interest in locally made goods, though. I hope our economies will find their way back to those business models in the future.

post #22 of 40

Presently living in Europe and before this I lived in Japan.  I can tell you Americans are the worst offenders, but I believe that people are starting to wake up.  I see a movement in the US back toward local, responsibly made foods and products.  Most evident in cities like Portland and Seattle.   

 

For instance- I bought a coffee maker by the American brand KitchenAid for $100.  The little electric brain died after about 18 months and the coffee maker was ruined- had to throw it out.  So, I wasted money on a shitty Made in China American product because of its established brand name.  On the other hand, my mother still has the same iron she received as a wedding present in 1966.  Not just that, she has the same blender, roaster oven, hand mixer and electric carving knife- all being used for almost 50 years, which is how these name brands earned their reputation.

 

Out-sourcing labor to factories that are not invested in the company they work for is a recipe for disaster.  I really hope that people outgrow this trend. 

post #23 of 40
Wwt
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanGent View Post

The babbling thing may be from a overly verbose translation engine- just my guess. 

The issue that I have is not whether something is made in a particular country- it is whether the item is made by underpaid "slave" labor.  Items made in USA, Japan, Germany, Italy, etc. by local nationals are generally made with more pride and attention to detail.  The worker has a vested interest in the success of the company.  Subsequently, when a worker makes a living wage he/she will have expendable income to shop, go on vacation, etc.  This reinvests those dollars back into the economy and creates tax revenue.....etc., etc. and so forth.   

In regard to American businesses like Bill's, Allen Edmonds and others that still manufacture their goods in America- you are going to have to pay a much higher retail price for these items to offset the labor costs.  Sadly, most companies have moved their factories overseas because Americans have voted with their wallets.  Americans have insisted on buying their stuff at prices only slave labor can provide.
e

Your guess is wrong. I don't use a translation machine. I cannot think in your place. If you experience what I say as mechanical and verbose, I'd recommend you to ask yourself why.
The situation of exploitation needs at least publicity of the conditions under which these workers live, so consumers know what they support when they buy articles made in these conditions. Perhaps such publicity might seem to you verbosity.
PS: Similar to publicity of the conditions on the farm and kitchen as places where what one eats originates. In the case of what is "thought" is concerned, the battle to influence and control thought is more complicated.
Edited by Naive, Jr. - 1/1/14 at 10:52pm
post #24 of 40
Based on the book I mentioned, it paints a grim story of counterfeit luxury items. Stories of slavery, child abuse, and crime/ terrorist financing. I know plenty of people don't care, as long as something is dirt cheap, and has the right badge on it. For me, counterfeits are a four letter word...

As far as legitimate "luxury" manufacturing. My understanding is that not all factories in China are horrible places to work, and some pay decent wages (based on skill and experience of course). Different factories have different grades of skill and quality, so the luxury brands that outsource there are getting a decent manufactured product. Albeit, still sold to us at a 1,000% mark up.

Some interesting facts from the book:
Most of a luxury brands money is made on hand bags and accessories (clothing runs are usually a loss).

The Japanese account for 50% of all luxury items sold every year (might be the Chinese now).

In any case, something's I wanted to contribute to this thread, food for thought.
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanGent View Post

Presently living in Europe and before this I lived in Japan.  I can tell you Americans are the worst offenders, but I believe that people are starting to wake up.  I see a movement in the US back toward local, responsibly made foods and products.  Most evident in cities like Portland and Seattle.   



 



For instance- I bought a coffee maker by the American brand KitchenAid for $100.  The little electric brain died after about 18 months and the coffee maker was ruined- had to throw it out.  So, I wasted money on a shitty Made in China American product because of its established brand name.  On the other hand, my mother still has the same iron she received as a wedding present in 1966.  Not just that, she has the same blender, roaster oven, hand mixer and electric carving knife- all being used for almost 50 years, which is how these name brands earned their reputation.



 



Out-sourcing labor to factories that are not invested in the company they work for is a recipe for disaster.  I really hope that people outgrow this trend. 


 



i completely agree. there is a "movement" to buy local / American, i see that too, but i think that is in part do to that international manufacturing is slowly becoming expensive.
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

Based on the book I mentioned, it paints a grim story of counterfeit luxury items. Stories of slavery, child abuse, and crime/ terrorist financing. I know plenty of people don't care, as long as something is dirt cheap, and has the right badge on it. For me, counterfeits are a four letter word...

As far as legitimate "luxury" manufacturing. My understanding is that not all factories in China are horrible places to work, and some pay decent wages (based on skill and experience of course). Different factories have different grades of skill and quality, so the luxury brands that outsource there are getting a decent manufactured product. Albeit, still sold to us at a 1,000% mark up.

Some interesting facts from the book:
Most of a luxury brands money is made on hand bags and accessories (clothing runs are usually a loss).

The Japanese account for 50% of all luxury items sold every year (might be the Chinese now).

In any case, something's I wanted to contribute to this thread, food for thought.

Accessorie includes pocket squares (pochettes). How am I to discover under what conditions a pocket square is made? Or how am I to know how an employer treats his workers?
post #27 of 40

Sweatshops have been existing in the United States for a long time, but you are not exposed to them very often.  This subject is taboo just like its sister-topic -- undocumented immigrants who clean our gardens and perform farming jobs at rock bottom prices. 

 

In the ideal world, I would not care about the origin of a product as sometimes you simply cannot get local alternatives.  What I really want is to ensure that my money goes to hard working people who create great products or services.  

post #28 of 40
There are plenty of sweat shops in the US. I've seen some in the garment district in NYC.
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanGent View Post

Presently living in Europe and before this I lived in Japan.  I can tell you Americans are the worst offenders, but I believe that people are starting to wake up.  I see a movement in the US back toward local, responsibly made foods and products.  Most evident in cities like Portland and Seattle.   

For instance- I bought a coffee maker by the American brand KitchenAid for $100.  The little electric brain died after about 18 months and the coffee maker was ruined- had to throw it out.  So, I wasted money on a shitty Made in China American product because of its established brand name.  On the other hand, my mother still has the same iron she received as a wedding present in 1966.  Not just that, she has the same blender, roaster oven, hand mixer and electric carving knife- all being used for almost 50 years, which is how these name brands earned their reputation.

Out-sourcing labor to factories that are not invested in the company they work for is a recipe for disaster.  I really hope that people outgrow this trend. 


Excellent post, thank you +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The saying goes “buy cheap, buy twice” – and how true it is. In fact, if you don’t buy quality you could end up spending much more in the long-run.
post #30 of 40


Whoa- that's quite a bit different from the first incarnation of this post.  I was attempting to encourage patience from the other reader who commented on your babbling.  I appreciate that you have such a mastery of English (if it is your second language).  I really struggle with my Japanese and Italian and my German has all but disappeared.  

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naive, Jr. View Post

Wwt
e

Your guess is wrong. I don't use a translation machine. I cannot think in your place. If you experience what I say as mechanical and verbose, I'd recommend you to ask yourself why.
The situation of exploitation needs at least publicity of the conditions under which these workers live, so consumers know what they support when they buy articles made in these conditions. Perhaps such publicity might seem to you verbosity.
PS: Similar to publicity of the conditions on the farm and kitchen as places where what one eats originates. In the case of what is "thought" is concerned, the battle to influence and control thought is more complicated.


 

Ask my self why?  Because your syntax is unusual.   

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