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Forum feels clogged - Page 6

post #76 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

It's revealing, I think, that so much of the discussion in this thread has concerned "answers," as though it's that simple and they're all there in black-and-white in the threads of yesteryear.)

this is maybe the best point so far. although i came to SF looking for a very specific answer to a very specific question, that is not why i stayed at all. as a matter of fact, after i got my answer i pretty much thought i was one and done.

it was much more the conversation that was taking place around the forum that kept me engaged. the meat of SF never was, and in my opinion never should be, geared on giving concrete answers to very simple questions. do i wear a tux to the prom, is this a nice tie....

sure, all that stuff has a place here, and it is useful and necessary, but the real value of the forum is in the conversations that do not end with a clear cut answer. the conversations rooted in ideas and theories, and ones that leave us with a variety of answers, all based on the opinions of knowledgable posters who have posited very clearly why they think their opinion is right. and that leaves the readers and participants to mull it over and try and work out what works best for them and what is most sensible to their way of dress.

its nice to have a fairly easy way for newcomers to get answers, but that is not what the crux of the forum is imho.
post #77 of 97
I'd like the forum to be better and cater to my needs.

Can someone succinctly answer how this can be done? (please no snark)

X-posted in Ask a Question thread.
post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I'd like the forum to be better and cater to my needs.

Can someone succinctly answer how this can be done? (please no snark)

X-posted in Ask a Question thread.

Fantastic.

+1
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

2) almost all noobs who arrive and question the wisdom of the elders are unknowledgeable or unstylish or both. This has led to established members ostracizing heterodoxy in general. Since novelty is the heartbeat that keeps a good conversation alive, this strategy has led to atrophy.

i think this is also a very good point, and its one of the things that drives me mad, and almost weekly makes me want to leave WAYWRN for good.

i dont expect a new member to arrive here and think they look like crap. most people who happen on SF are already into style/fashion in some way, and most people like that think they look good, and most of them dress better, or at least less schlubby, than their friends, and probably get compliments IRL.

i know i fit right into that. and when i made my first WAYWRN fit pic post i thought i was teh best. but it took maybe a few days at most of reading the thread and seeing other peoples fits, people who had been here for a while, to realize i looked so bad.

it amazes me how many people arrive here and insist for so long that they are right and and stylish, as if they are blind to everything that goes on around them. sure, there are people that get harsh feedback and try and learn, and they are the people that keep me wanting to stick around, along with the established members that always nice and enjoyable to interact with. but that first group have become almost unbearable.

maybe this post deserves deleting, as there is no way to fix this phenomena, but i felt compelled to share.
post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I'm glad that people are brainstorming how to make the forum better. Forum design and policy does affect content.

But if you really want to get better content on the forum, the best way to do it is to create some of it yourself. Ask not what the forum can do for you. Ask what you can do for the forum. This is way more effective way of improving the forum than directing complaints and demands towards admin, affiliates, or other members. This is Festivus, so the airing of grievances is understandable, and sometimes productive. ButI think part of the reason some past members stopped posting is that they had nothing left to talk about, or no one left to talk to with anything original to say.

Here's an idea for the taking: How about someone starts a book club? Assign some kind of book on style or somehow related to style (you can start with the list here if you want), give everyone a few weeks to read it, and then start a thread discussing it, with the price of admission being that all posters must read the book first. To share the load, maybe get a group of three or four people together to organize it, with the duty of book selection and discussion moderation rotating among the organizing committee.

While I'm making suggestions...another way I think threads could be improved is if people made more use of the "thumbs up" button. There are still way too many posts that just amount to "+1" or "thanks". If you don't have anything original to contribute, just press the thumbs up button instead of cluttering up the thread.

You are a very idealistic person: "better content...create it yiurself", "ask what you can do for the forum". There are abilities everybody has, but not everybody has had the same possibility to develop. What you refer to as complaint, grievance etc. may need a better formulation. Some problems require training in a specialised discipline to recognize and then to try to solve. The reorganisation or architecture of this website as organism, in a sense living organism, needs thinking which is quite an exertion and presupposes knowledge beyond clothing.
post #81 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I'd like the forum to be better and cater to my needs.

Can someone succinctly answer how this can be done? (please no snark)

X-posted in Ask a Question thread.

That's a very funny question because if one looks at the youngsters on the Filson bag thread discussing the market, one gets the impression this website is an exercise station for future economic experts in marketing. If someone wants to know how to satisfy his or her needs, this person must reflect if he or she has formulated what he or she needs so that the listener or reader understands. Here there are two assumptions: 1. Are these needs essential? 2. Why this particular listener or reader? (I transformed assumption into question.)
Edited by Naive, Jr. - 12/23/13 at 6:49pm
post #82 of 97
This is an interesting thread, although its a bit weird to see people talking about the "old" and "new" forums when most of the posters joined after 2010 (although I guess anyone can go back and read old threads, but who really does that? So I wonder if people actually appreciate how different the forum used to be). But I agree with Doc's sentiment, for the most part. When I first found SF, I posted very little but enjoyed posts from a variety of members, even members who tended to take heat from all sides like FNB. I think its also safe to say that when I first started lurking, I knew very little about clothing, shoes, etc. so arguably anyone would have seemed more knowledgeable.

To me, the greatest difference is that before 2008-2009 (in my mind, chronologically, I think of Spoo's rise as the turning point - as I believe he was the first vendor to achieve a certain level of popularity on SF), it seemed like if I was involved in a thread about Edward Green shoes, that conversation was between a group of people who were primarily customers/fans. I think it was rare that shoemakers or retailers chimed in back then. Over time, that dynamic has changed dramatically, which isn't say its abad thing. But now, a thread like the EG appreciation thread is primarily stimulated by retailers and affiliate vendors posting images of new models for sale. There are certainly benefits to those voices joining the forum - certainly, the new Foster & Son thread has been very interesting to read, and they have embraced the idea of reaching out to their current/potential customer base - but, for me anyway, there is a difference between chatting with shoe enthusiasts who are buying shoes and shoe enthusiasts who are ultimately trying to sell shoes (this may just be a figment of my imagination).

All of that being said, I think unbelragazzo's last post is also pretty accurate, at least for me personally. When I felt like I had nothing new to add to SF, I found other ways to continue/expand on the discussions that I wanted to have, presumably with the type of people that I wanted to connect with via blogs, books, magazines, etc.
Edited by PhiloVance - 12/26/13 at 12:04pm
post #83 of 97
The most interesting threads (for me), are the deep dives. Things like jeffryd's(sp?) suit construction stuff, or StuBloom's(sp?) fabricare stuff, or AmericanGent's Matuozzo stuff or the bespoke bags or shoes pictorials. And they spawn all kinds of entertaining clusterfuck arguments.

I would venture to guess that many members/lurkers would agree.

If this was my forum, one of my strategic imperatives would be to incentivize these deep dives and all of their permutations. I don't know if LA Guy partners with unbelragazzo for his vendor puff-pieces or not, but that is one strategy.

While a lot of ground has already been covered, there's plenty that has not. Finding ways to engage CEGO or JLP or Charvet etc to document the ins and outs and variations (beyond "here is their fitting room and cloths and the finished product") would provide more fodder.

I have no idea on the economics of the site, which obviously impacts what kinds of incentives are doable.
post #84 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiloVance View Post

This is an interesting thread, although its a bit weird to see people talking about the "old" and "new" forums when most of the posters joined after 2010 (although I guess anyone can go back and read old threads, but who really does that?

That's exactly what I did.

Why? Because when I joined, I could tell who the "good" posters were but they were usually arguing with each other and talking about when the forums were better - namely Vox, Manton, and Foo but also others.

Since classic style is just that, it's not like some threads from a year or two before I joined would be outdated. So I read them. And I appreciated those a lot more than most threads that have sprung up since I joined.

A lot of forums adopt the whole hivemind thing so I guess it's like ... those posters were probably the creators of it or played a large part in that whereas others simply parrot what they learned so it doesn't mean as much.

That isn't to say the brands and recommendations made here aren't good - most are. But I just don't see anyone challenging it in a good way. The only challengers are more like new posters not ready to admit they know nothing, so they'll argue that a 1" lapel and skinny tie doesn't look like utter trash.
post #85 of 97
I recognize the feeling that those complaining have, but I also think that Unbelragazzo has a point. However, members can't just remake the forum, if they ever could have done so. The decision by SF's owners to 'add value' to the site, and the deluge of affiliate vendors, has changed both the feel and structure of the site in some ways for better but in other ways for worse. Now many of the affiliates are of course members, and others become members and contribute elsewhere on the site, and those affiliates, I generally appreciate. I am far more dubious about those who are just here for the hard sell and especially if their products clearly lack the kind of quality that we are all, I hope, trying to encourage. I don't think I even need to say which ones I mean. I recognise that the site owners have every right to earn a living, but I would like to see a little more attention to quality control / vendor selection. Ideally, I'd also prefer vendor threads sectioned, but clear colour marking would be a good second choice.
post #86 of 97
TM79 - that is great that you did go back. I do that as well from time to time, when searching for a particular subject. But occasionally I've come across an old thread with terrible questions posed by none other than my 2005 counterpart . . . shog[1].gif
post #87 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post

I recognize the feeling that those complaining have, but I also think that Unbelragazzo has a point. However, members can't just remake the forum, if they ever could have done so. The decision by SF's owners to 'add value' to the site, and the deluge of affiliate vendors, has changed both the feel and structure of the site in some ways for better but in other ways for worse. Now many of the affiliates are of course members, and others become members and contribute elsewhere on the site, and those affiliates, I generally appreciate. I am far more dubious about those who are just here for the hard sell and especially if their products clearly lack the kind of quality that we are all, I hope, trying to encourage. I don't think I even need to say which ones I mean. I recognise that the site owners have every right to earn a living, but I would like to see a little more attention to quality control / vendor selection. Ideally, I'd also prefer vendor threads sectioned, but clear colour marking would be a good second choice.

I think Flying Monkey and PhiloVance speak for me as naive learner when they point out that those in it for the money should be identified. If I am called a "pretentious Fuck" after I complain that affiliate vendors instrumentalise my posts simply to be able to show their advertising, I wonder who is pretending?
post #88 of 97
To me the affiliate threads have gotten so out of hand that we actually need a proper subforum for them. While it's great that they get this kind of attention, they do detract from the original purpose of the forum. So how about cramming a big ass link or two on top to a subforum where all the affiliate threads would reside?

I too really like the threads that go in-depth with construction and details as well as the ones where people argue about style in general.
post #89 of 97
A few weeks or months ago, someone suggested that I try selling a pair of EGs for cole haan as they had just seen a similar pair go for $600 or so on yahoo Japan's auction site. When I replied with a link to the auction to show that I had followed his advice, some other member was kind enough to suggest that I refrain from posting my auctions outside of the members eBay auctions thread. Aside from the fact that I think said member needed to relax, i started to wonder how this is any different from various vendors who cross post their own wares in shoe threads such as the EG appreciation thread. It's not a major issue (and this might be a privilege that affiliate vendors are granted by the forum powers), and I'm not going to complain too loudly about images of EGs being pushed in front of my face, but this seems to speak to the issue of vendors being given a different status at SF, which has changed the atmosphere to some extent (of course, in my opinion).
post #90 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansderHund View Post

Great of you to chime in, Fok. My take on it:

3. I actually enjoy seeing the various affiliate threads and being introduced to new products/ideas. However, and I really don't know if this is possible, but requesting affiliates to refrain from cross-posting all of their products into different threads. I'll see a pocket square on Luxire or Passaggio's thread, and then I'll see it in the PS thread complete with links. I like both of these affiliates and their products, but I'd rather not see the same item(s) multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

As for 3, that's something we are working on.  Traditionally (since 2006) we always allowed affiliates "reasonable" posting of commercial posts outside of their threads, but unfortunately, not everyone has the same idea of what is reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiloVance View Post

A few weeks or months ago, someone suggested that I try selling a pair of EGs for cole haan as they had just seen a similar pair go for $600 or so on yahoo Japan's auction site. When I replied with a link to the auction to show that I had followed his advice, some other member was kind enough to suggest that I refrain from posting my auctions outside of the members eBay auctions thread. Aside from the fact that I think said member needed to relax, i started to wonder how this is any different from various vendors who cross post their own wares in shoe threads such as the EG appreciation thread. It's not a major issue (and this might be a privilege that affiliate vendors are granted by the forum powers), and I'm not going to complain too loudly about images of EGs being pushed in front of my face, but this seems to speak to the issue of vendors being given a different status at SF, which has changed the atmosphere to some extent (of course, in my opinion).

I felt that way as well and Fok offered a fair explanation to it. I'm not sure of their agreements, but it sounds like he (they) are going to attempt to remind the affiliate vendors that they should keep their ads within their own threads.
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