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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 67

post #991 of 5110
And frankly I don't see how this could matter. Were there a lot of other sportsteams attempting to name their team the Redskins? I guess they could be worried about knock-off merchandise, but if you're the kind of huge douche who'd wear a Redskins jersey aren't you more likely to have bought it from the team shop at the game you just attended? Do they sell a lot of Redskins merchandise online in Bumfuck Missouri? Trademark or not if your mark is so toxic only a small percentage of the country wants to buy its merchandise than you've got the informal equivalent.

Also I'm surprised there's no balancing test with the number of detractors DVD the number of proponents. Are there more than 600,000 Redskins fans?
post #992 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

I haven't read it but is it the term Redskins that's no longer protected, the image of the Indian or only when both are used together?

If it's the latter two just change the mascot image to a Red Snapper as a big fuck you to everybody.

The article I read says the current logo retained its trademark, but the rest is gone. So, "Redskins" isn't protected, nor are any of their historical logos, but the current one is covered.
post #993 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

The article I read says the current logo retained its trademark, but the rest is gone. So, "Redskins" isn't protected, nor are any of their historical logos, but the current one is covered.

Well that's even less of a who gives a shit. What's the market for 1960 Redskins Budweiser Commemorative Mug knock offs?
post #994 of 5110
The Atlanta paper had a story yesterday about a father who forgot to drop his 22-month-old son off at daycare, left the kid in the car all day, and discovered him dead in his car seat on the way home. By all accounts, this was a tragic accident, and the father was, according to the article, devastated when he discovered his son was dead.

An update says he's been charged with felony murder and first degree child cruelty. My guess is that they're justifying the felony murder charge with the fact that the cruelty is a felony, since there seems to be zero chance there was intent. He's also being held without bond.

These types of cases pop up relatively frequently here because of the climate, and I'm always conflicted on whether criminal charges are appropriate. In this case, the chosen charges seem particularly harsh (though I understand the prosecutor is probably over charging I intentionally).

What is the consensus on things like this? MrsG and I have talked about it at length a number of times, especially since we're in the prime demographic for this to happen, and we're always both uneasy when we see criminal charges. It's, admittedly, easy to prevent (I had a routine where I checked as I left the car at work when daycare was my job). However, it also seems like the demands of parenthood uniquely disadvantage parents in a way that makes these types of mistakes more likely, and these stories always seem to have a common thread (e.g. the kid fell asleep, the parent isn't the one who usually does the drop offs so it broke routine, etc).

These are such sad stores, and it seems somehow wrong to further destroy the parent's life. On the other hand, their negligence caused the death of the person the parent is supposed to be protecting, and I wonder if my internal conflict is more out of sympathy for the grieving parents than reason.
post #995 of 5110
jesus, that is dumbfounding.

I've never heard of anything like that. I mean, I guess I've heard of parents who dumbly leave their kids or pets in the car when they go into the grocery store, on purpose, which is colossally poor judgment. But forgot to take your kid to day care, and further not notice at any point during the drive that your nearly-2-year-old is in the back seat? And then never click on to that at any point during the day? When I ask myself "could that be me?" I just don't see how it would be possible. My kid has made me a little sleep deprived at times, but not completely fucking retarded all day sleep deprived.

It's so farfetched to me that creating some kind of routine to prevent it wouldn't even cross my mind. I mean, for me, it's almost akin to saying "Dragon deaths are easily preventable. You simply have to scan the sky for flying dragons before you step outside. Problem solved!"

So for me, that sheds a little bit of doubt on the accident story. But I haven't read anything about it, so, if I were to take it all at face value, my question simply would be:

What is the point of prosecution and incarceration here? Is it a deterrent? Is it rehabilitative? Is it preventative? Hard to say any of the above.
post #996 of 5110
Google says:
Quote:
(a) A parent, guardian, or other person supervising the welfare of or having immediate charge or custody of a child under the age of 18 commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person willfully deprives the child of necessary sustenance to the extent that the child́s health or well-being is jeopardized.

(b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

(c) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the second degree when such person with criminal negligence causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

(d) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the third degree when:

(1) Such person, who is the primary aggressor, intentionally allows a child under the age of 18 to witness the commission of a forcible felony, battery, or family violence battery; or

(2) Such person, who is the primary aggressor, having knowledge that a child under the age of 18 is present and sees or hears the act, commits a forcible felony, battery, or family violence battery.

(e)(1) A person convicted of the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree as provided in this Code section shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years.

(2) A person convicted of the offense of cruelty to children in the second degree shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years.

(3) A person convicted of the offense of cruelty to children in the third degree shall be punished as for a misdemeanor upon the first or second conviction. Upon conviction of a third or subsequent offense of cruelty to children in the third degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be sentenced to a fine not less than $1,000.00 nor more than $5,000.00 or imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than three years or shall be sentenced to both fine and imprisonment.

Sounds like overcharging to me. Admittedly, in my state at least, there are some cases that equate recklessness to malice under certain, you know, particularly reckless circumstances -- like where someone intentionally exposes someone else to a situation that's almost certainly going to injure them. But this doesn't sound like that. Criminal negligence, on the other hand, absolutely.
post #997 of 5110
Yeah, negligence always seems like the most reasonable thing to charge these people with, if they'll be charged at all. The cruelty part in this case seems especially...uh...cruel to the father since there seems to be zero intent.

Douglas - A stat I saw said it happened 43 times last year. So it's not exactly an epidemic, but it does happen. I'd imagine it's more common down here than up there because our summers are hotter and longer.

To be honest, I've always thought it seemed impossible to forget something like that, but I also don't assume everyone processes life like I do. I think I started checking after hearing about one of these deaths. It was partially, I'm sure, a bit of parental paranoia on my part, but it's also a pretty simple way to be doubly sure.

The story is usually something like, "dad isn't the one who generally takes the kid to daycare, but he did today. The kid fell asleep halfway there, and dad is so used to his routine that the quiet kid slipped his mind." Add parental fatigue to that, and maybe distraction from what's coming at work, and I can see how it happens. I'd like to believe I could never be that distracted, but I'm not every parent in the world. At the very least, I think it's a plausible enough scenario to believe it could happen accidentally a few dozen or so times of year.

But, yeah, your last paragraph gets to the heart of it for me. Unless it's some philosophical notion of what we "should" do when a death occurs, it's hard to justify criminal charges.
post #998 of 5110
Imo if you are driving and forgot that your child is in the car you have already fucked up. That doesn't make you a murderer, and I think murder is a ridiculous charge here. I wouldn't be sad to see the guy get convicted of negligent homicide and aggravated neglect though
post #999 of 5110
I just heard the Redskins's lawyer talk, and they are going to appeal. Allegedly the majority opinion includes a footnote that the statute is unconstitutionally vague.
post #1000 of 5110
Ridiculous overcharging. The Prosecutor did it to get press and make the eventual plea bargain lean more in the Government's favour.

Assholes like that should be hounded out of office.
post #1001 of 5110
The Washington Post had a big article on this last summer. The general conclusion was that "It always seems impossible, until it happens to you."

What's the benefit of prison sentences for this sort of thing, anyway? Does it really act as a deterrent? Anyone really going to pay more attention to not killing their children because they might also go to jail over it? Maybe the publicity from the cases serves to raise the issue, but you'd think it would happen regardless of punishment.
post #1002 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

The Washington Post had a big article on this last summer. The general conclusion was that "It always seems impossible, until it happens to you."

What's the benefit of prison sentences for this sort of thing, anyway? Does it really act as a deterrent? Anyone really going to pay more attention to not killing their children because they might also go to jail over it? Maybe the publicity from the cases serves to raise the issue, but you'd think it would happen regardless of punishment.

It's doubly bullshit because it's such a non-issue. There were 43 kids who died in hot cars last year. We average about 38 a year.
Quote:
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2014: 13
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2013: 44
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 1998-present: 619
Average number of U.S. child heatstroke fatalities per year since 1998: 38

90 Children die from falling down in the home each year. Where's the outcry on parents for not installing foam carpeting and locking their children in padded rooms?

This is media scaremongering and attention whoring. There are 20.9 million 0-5 year old children in the US. Sorry, not all the little turtles are going to make it to the ocean. That doesn't mean it's somebody's fault, and it sure as shit shouldn't be national news.

EDIT - If I did my math correctly (best I could do with the limits) http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/odds.php
Quote:
Answer:
For 20900 to 0.043 odds of Winning;

Probability of Winning:
2.0E-6

Chance of winning:
0%

Yeah, not something that's going to keep me up at night.

DOUBLE EDIT - Better calculator

probability is 43/20900000 or 0

Astonishingly similar results.
post #1003 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

Imo if you are driving and forgot that your child is in the car you have already fucked up. That doesn't make you a murderer, and I think murder is a ridiculous charge here. I wouldn't be sad to see the guy get convicted of negligent homicide and aggravated neglect though

I don't think this is unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

Ridiculous overcharging. The Prosecutor did it to get press and make the eventual plea bargain lean more in the Government's favour.

Assholes like that should be hounded out of office.

Kind of how I feel about this case. I get some sort of negligence charge, even if I'm not sure I agree with one, but this situation just seems spiteful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

The Washington Post had a big article on this last summer. The general conclusion was that "It always seems impossible, until it happens to you."

What's the benefit of prison sentences for this sort of thing, anyway? Does it really act as a deterrent? Anyone really going to pay more attention to not killing their children because they might also go to jail over it? Maybe the publicity from the cases serves to raise the issue, but you'd think it would happen regardless of punishment.

I think I remember that article. I recall MrsG sending me one that prompted us to talk about it. Maybe that was it.

As an interesting corollary to the "it seems impossible..." thing, I recall one article I read on it saying that this was pretty much completely unheard of until the 90s when ubiquitous airbags moved kids to the backseat.

I wonder the same thing about this and a lot of other situations where people are punished for mistakes. Is there really a benefit to that sort of punishment?
post #1004 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

I wonder the same thing about this and a lot of other situations where people are punished for mistakes. Is there really a benefit to that sort of punishment?

Well, when edinafails are punished, the benefit is our general amusement.
post #1005 of 5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

Well, when edinafails are punished, the benefit is our general amusement.

True. Maybe we can get one of Atlanta's suburban counties to overcharge him for a fail-related crime.
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