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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 154

post #2296 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Surprise! Whites killed by cops at a rate grossly out of proportion to their share of serious violent crime, blacks less, vast majority of those killed by cops are armed. Of course the WaPo doesn't mention how often people commit violent crimes for reference, and it makes a feeble attempt to spin the statistics, but the tone of the article is almost resigned. Notice how especially egregious they are when they lump together unarmed and "carrying a toy gun" as if those were remotely comparable.

So far this year, 385 fatal shootings by cops, less than 13% of those shot ultimately found to be unarmed. Only about 25% of those killed by cops were black, overall. Non-hispanic whites almost half.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-police-shootings-in-2015-approaching-400-nationwide/2015/05/30/d322256a-058e-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop_b

ETA: obviously I posted this in the wrong thread.

i feel like you were so ready to prove those whiney black power conspiracy theorists wrong that you read whatever the hell you wanted into that article. i can imagine the glee in your voice/fingers as you're typing this point out.

your own article says
Quote:
About half the victims were white, half minority. But the demographics shifted sharply among the unarmed victims, two-thirds of whom were black or Hispanic. Overall, blacks were killed at three times the rate of whites or other minorities when adjusting by the population of the census tracts where the shootings occurred.

blacks that were shot by police: 100/365 = 27.4%
blacks as a proportion of the population: 39 million/309 million = 12.61%

can't find the part where it says whites were killed grossly out of proportion to their share of violent crimes. i did look it up and it looks like blacks account for 28% of serious violent crime arrests
Quote:
In about half the shootings, police were responding to non-domestic criminal situations, with robberies and traffic infractions ranking among the most common ­offenses. Nearly half of blacks and other minorities were killed under such circumstances. So were about a third of whites.
post #2297 of 5120
Yeah, it's totally ok if they're killing white people. We deserve it.

Fuck the demographics, cops should not be killing unarmed people PERIOD. Civilians don't get that benefit of the doubt, and pigs who are supposed to be trained in how to use firearms should be held to a higher standard. Fucking dicks.
post #2298 of 5120
im not saying it's ok if they kill white people. but he said whites were killed at a rate grossly out of proportion to their share of violent crimes implying that whites don't deserve the amount of cop killings they get and conversely blacks do because they commit a greater proportion of the violent crimes. which the article says exactly the opposite of.

i feel like the classic pro cop defense is "cops don't know if civilians are armed or not just by looking at them"

i mean if your policy really is police should not kill unarmed civilians i would image the rate of cops getting killed would go up.
post #2299 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

im not saying it's ok if they kill white people. but he said whites were killed at a rate grossly out of proportion to their share of violent crimes implying that whites don't deserve the amount of cop killings they get and conversely blacks do because they commit a greater proportion of the violent crimes. which the article says exactly the opposite of.

i feel like the classic pro cop defense is "cops don't know if civilians are armed or not just by looking at them"


(I was on your side, I was throwing that at Ata. C'mon man, get on the same page.)
post #2300 of 5120
shog[1].gif

well that totally went over my head
post #2301 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

shog[1].gif

well that totally went over my head

You have no frame of reference, it's like your a child wandering into the middle of the movie. Also, dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature.
post #2302 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

your own article says
blacks that were shot by police: 100/365 = 27.4%
blacks as a proportion of the population: 39 million/309 million = 12.61%

can't find the part where it says whites were killed grossly out of proportion to their share of violent crimes. i did look it up and it looks like blacks account for 28% of serious violent crime arrests

Of course it doesn't say that, because the source is the Washington Post. They have both a financial and ideological incentive to spin the statistics to perpetuate the current controversy. As far as the percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks, I am assuming you didn't read the numbers right. It's more like 28% of total arrests. The numbers for violent crimes are higher. For 2011:

Homicide: 49.7%
Rape: 32.9%
Robbery 55.6%
Aggravated assault: 33.6%

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

If blacks commit half of all homicides, and they are 1/8 of the population, they are about seven times more likely to commit murder than others.

Note also that the government considers hispanics as white for most national crime statistics.
post #2303 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Of course it doesn't say that, because the source is the Washington Post. They have both a financial and ideological incentive to spin the statistics to perpetuate the current controversy. As far as the percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks, I am assuming you didn't read the numbers right. It's more like 28% of total arrests. The numbers for violent crimes are higher. For 2011:

Homicide: 49.7%
Rape: 32.9%
Robbery 55.6%
Aggravated assault: 33.6%

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

If blacks commit half of all homicides, and they are 1/8 of the population, they are about seven times more likely to commit murder than others.

Note also that the government considers hispanics as white for most national crime statistics.


Sure, so being black is reasonable suspicion to stop and search them. I get it. Don't affect me none, cause I ain't black. In fact, it'll probably generate more business for me. So tell us more about your perfect government of statist fuckpigs.
post #2304 of 5120
ah you're right i didn't read the numbers right. i read the total arrests part
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Of course it doesn't say that, because the source is the Washington Post. They have both a financial and ideological incentive to spin the statistics to perpetuate the current controversy. As far as the percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks, I am assuming you didn't read the numbers right. It's more like 28% of total arrests. The numbers for violent crimes are higher. For 2011:

Homicide: 49.7%
Rape: 32.9%
Robbery 55.6%
Aggravated assault: 33.6%

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

If blacks commit half of all homicides, and they are 1/8 of the population, they are about seven times more likely to commit murder than others.

Note also that the government considers hispanics as white for most national crime statistics.

i now feel like your post was badly worded but it seemed like you were making an argument and then posted a washington post article as evidence. or maybe i'm just very bad at detecting what your original position is through the layers of sarcasm.
post #2305 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

ah you're right i didn't read the numbers right. i read the total arrests part
i now feel like your post was badly worded but it seemed like you were making an argument and then posted a washington post article as evidence. or maybe i'm just very bad at detecting what your original position is through the layers of sarcasm.


Ata is a statist fuckpig. That's his position always.
post #2306 of 5120
Stopping and searching people is a lousy way to investigate homicides. As far as things like drug crimes go, the law has made a conscious decision to disregard racial demographics even though it would often be completely rational to consider the suspect's race in the totality of the circumstances. It's pretty generous if you think about it.
post #2307 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

ah you're right i didn't read the numbers right. i read the total arrests part
i now feel like your post was badly worded but it seemed like you were making an argument and then posted a washington post article as evidence. or maybe i'm just very bad at detecting what your original position is through the layers of sarcasm.

I said "Of course the WaPo doesn't mention how often people commit violent crimes for reference." What more do you want?
post #2308 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Stopping and searching people is a lousy way to investigate homicides. As far as things like drug crimes go, the law has made a conscious decision to disregard racial demographics even though it would often be completely rational to consider the suspect's race in the totality of the circumstances. It's pretty generous if you think about it.

Very cosmopolitan.
post #2309 of 5120
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

im not saying it's ok if they kill white people. but he said whites were killed at a rate grossly out of proportion to their share of violent crimes implying that whites don't deserve the amount of cop killings they get and conversely blacks do because they commit a greater proportion of the violent crimes. which the article says exactly the opposite of.

i feel like the classic pro cop defense is "cops don't know if civilians are armed or not just by looking at them"
It's such a dumb argument in the first place, basically that racial demographics ought to determine whether shooting an unarmed person is ok or not. Shooting a person is not a statistical decision. You don't get to say "Oh well this guy is 18% more likely to kill me, so I'm 18% more justified in killing him."
post #2310 of 5120
That's a nice illustration of my point. Not the one it purports to address, but nice nonetheless. Cops should treat everyone the same even though they know that not everyone is equally dangerous. Easy to ask them to do it, maybe a little harder to put into practice since when you factor in things like age, race, and sex, it's more like "this person is ten thousand times more likely to try to kill me" compared to grandma. "But I have to treat both exactly the same way so no one's feelings are hurt."

But gib's post really is is just a lazy straw man. The issue that's supposed to be front and center is whether cops are unnecessarily killing black people. The fact that blacks are killed out of proportion to their numbers suggests they are. The fact that blacks are killed far below their representation of violent criminals suggests they're not.
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