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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 148

post #2206 of 5117
When I looked at some Iowa website, I saw something like 3500a month for a pregnant family. They have another kid but I don't think that is going to raise it to 75k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Actually, that's exactly what she did. Yes, the premise was her brother's wedding, but that's certainly in the same bucket if you ask me.

I think we can separate things here into two conversations:

1) Was this family acting responsibly?
2) Some conversation on the US social safety net.

The answer to #1 is pretty clear if you ask me and that answer is in the negative. I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for them. Look at our own Green Frog, a lad likely to one day rule a small fortune, and his choice not to travel recently. Single guy, sitting on a good education, good prospects, and he tells us no little in savings yet he did not take a month off to travel due to being unemployed. Now take this family. This will be the sixth child for this relationship, obviously not making a lot of money as she's on Medicaid, and in her third trimester. Yup, no sympathy for her.

#2 is a far bigger conversation.

She only had one kid. The others belong to her sister who for all we know is doing just fine.

And I do make a distinction for the wedding... We don't even know how she paid for it, but attending a meaningful life event is not the same as randomly deciding China sounds like fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

This is absurd. $75k is national median income. We shouldn't be subsidizing above median households. Why should my tax dollars go to paying for the health care of someone who can afford to travel to China?

I just pulled the census data:

Iowa
Estimate Margin of Error
Total: 65,550 +/-380
2-person families 59,977 +/-555
3-person families 65,775 +/-1,245
4-person families 79,300 +/-1,130
5-person families 74,746 +/-1,746
6-person families 74,920 +/-2,744
7-or-more-person families 71,151 +/-3,414

Setting aside that I don't think it is 75k (I don't even think you would get an obamacare subsidy at 75k for a family of 3), I don't think it is a fruitful endeavor to fret over what some poor woman spends the money she does have on. We give purple the aid to help them, not so we can tie strings around their social lives.

The problem is not that this woman went to China, it is that the system is failing her. She has the insurance she is supposed to have and it isn't doing anything for her. As a medicaid eligible person, I don't even think she qualifies for ACA plans (and certainly not an ACA subsidy)--medicaid enrollment is basically mandatory. She even had some extra travel insurance that wouldn't pay out because the unborn child want listed as a beneficiary.
post #2207 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

When I looked at some Iowa website, I saw something like 3500a month for a pregnant family. They have another kid but I don't think that is going to raise it to 75k.
She only had one kid. The others belong to her sister who for all we know is doing just fine.

And I do make a distinction for the wedding... We don't even know how she paid for it, but attending a meaningful life event is not the same as randomly deciding China sounds like fun.
Setting aside that I don't think it is 75k (I don't even think you would get an obamacare subsidy at 75k for a family of 3), I don't think it is a fruitful endeavor to fret over what some poor woman spends the money she does have on. We give purple the aid to help them, not so we can tie strings around their social lives.

The problem is not that this woman went to China, it is that the system is failing her. She has the insurance she is supposed to have and it isn't doing anything for her. As a medicaid eligible person, I don't even think she qualifies for ACA plans (and certainly not an ACA subsidy)--medicaid enrollment is basically mandatory. She even had some extra travel insurance that wouldn't pay out because the unborn child want listed as a beneficiary.

I find it high, but I don't know. Like I said, I know some about Medicaid because of a family member, and they limit your assets to like $2000, so I don't know how you can have a $75k income and be on medicaid. (I guess you could have a huge house and a nice car because those don't count).

Additionally, do we want Medicaid or any other state insurance paying people's medical expenses to foreign state owned hospitals? I don't know.
post #2208 of 5117
Asset test went away last year when the healthcare marketplaces went into effect. It is just 133% of poverty level now (which can vary depending on things like pregnancy).

As to paying foreign hospitals... This was an emergency not a planned procedure, I'd vote to cover it. Also, based on my limited knowledge of costs for this kind of care, I think her total bill is way less than the same bill would have been in the US for an emergency c section, a bunch of premature care, and who knows what else. I wouldn't be surprised to see another zero before insurance discounts are taken out. Outside of Europe, medical care tends to be a lot cheaper abroad than in the US.
post #2209 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

However, if you want to question the eligibility requirements that the government has established, then that's totally fair. However, that's a very different thing than blaming the woman for being irresponsible.


She's totally irresponsible. Don't have kids you can't afford. For fuck's sake... Wrap your rascal or get free pills. It's really not that hard.

Just another point of support as to why poor people are poor - they are fucking dumb.
post #2210 of 5117
The $75K is from finding the federal poverty level for a family of three and doing 375% of it, which is the income limit for a pregnant woman in Iowa to receive Medicaid.

"Pregnant women with family income up to 375% of FPL."
http://www.healthinsurance.org/iowa-medicaid/

As I've said, I am far from being knowledgable about this stuff, so someone can correct this if I'm wrong.
post #2211 of 5117
Surely the rules against medicaid-eligible people getting subsidized Obamacare plans (welfare by another name) don't apply to special eligibility for pregnant women.
post #2212 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

She's totally irresponsible. Don't have kids you can't afford. For fuck's sake... Wrap your rascal or get free pills. It's really not that hard.

Just another point of support as to why poor people are poor - they are fucking dumb.

She had a kid unexpectedly two months premature when she was out of the country for a family member's wedding and after her doctor said she was fine to travel. I don't know her financial situation, but a premature baby falls into a category of medical emergency. Plenty of perfectly responsible people get fucked financially by medical emergencies. It doesn't automatically make someone a shitty person, because they didn't plan for a pretty extreme and unforeseen situation. Some people just have shitty luck and not unlimited income. It doesn't mean they should be confined to their homes so they can avoid as many potential disasters as possible.
post #2213 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

When I looked at some Iowa website, I saw something like 3500a month for a pregnant family. They have another kid but I don't think that is going to raise it to 75k.
She only had one kid. The others belong to her sister who for all we know is doing just fine.

Good catch on the kids. When I read it quickly I assumed the other person being interviewed was the husband. So now we have a presumably single mother, seven months pregnant, traveling to China. Your not finding this basically pleasure travel is reasonable and I think me finding it so is also reasonable. There is no denying this travel was 100% discretionary. I also think my comparison of her to GF is very telling as to their two current and likely future positions in society. You're not going to convince me this person is not exhibiting all signs of being a "grasshopper." That's a different conversation about whether the system is letting her down but it certainly prevents me from having much pity for her situation.
post #2214 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Update from a local paper: http://www.siouxlandmatters.com/story/d/story/le-mars-mother-bringing-new-born-son-home-after-fa/28024/p433t_2uTk2Ch76vh9-j8w Obviously no father in the picture.

And of course please feel free to donate: http://www.gofundme.com/tw33bvw

Because, FVCK YEAH! 'MURICA!


post #2215 of 5117
Thread Starter 
I also want to put this up here: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/travel.aspx

As I've observed constantly so many US liberals look to Canada and think "SINGLE PAYER!!!" and all problems solved. So, does Canadian healthcare cover people when they travel? Nope.
Quote:
When I travel outside of Canada, will OHIP pay the same medical expenses that are covered in Ontario?

No. If you are a resident of Ontario and you are insured under OHIP, you are entitled to very limited funding for a certain range of medical services when you are travelling outside of Canada. For this reason, you are strongly advised to purchase additional health insurance every time you leave Canada and ensure that the supplementary insurance you have purchased provides adequate coverage.

Suddenly this does not look like the US safety net just getting it wrong again.

From Alberta for Canucker:

http://www.health.alberta.ca/AHCIP/coverage-outside-Canada.html
Quote:
Alberta Health covers only limited physician and hospital costs outside of Canada. It is strongly recommended that Albertans obtain private supplementary insurance when outside the province or outside Canada, as costs for services can be much higher than in Alberta.
post #2216 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

She had a kid unexpectedly two months premature when she was out of the country for a family member's wedding and after her doctor said she was fine to travel. I don't know her financial situation, but a premature baby falls into a category of medical emergency. Plenty of perfectly responsible people get fucked financially by medical emergencies. It doesn't automatically make someone a shitty person, because they didn't plan for a pretty extreme and unforeseen situation. Some people just have shitty luck and not unlimited income. It doesn't mean they should be confined to their homes so they can avoid as many potential disasters as possible.


Unexpectedly? She had a kid while she was on welfare. She is irresponsible. Fuck her, she is a shitty person. I don't give a shit where she goes or what she does, but when she asks me to pay for her stupid fucking spawn I have a problem.

I don't fucking care about her travel plans, she never should have gotten pregnant in the first place.
post #2217 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Update from a local paper: http://www.siouxlandmatters.com/story/d/story/le-mars-mother-bringing-new-born-son-home-after-fa/28024/p433t_2uTk2Ch76vh9-j8w Obviously no father in the picture.

And of course please feel free to donate: http://www.gofundme.com/tw33bvw

Because, FVCK YEAH! 'MURICA!



It says right here that the father is at home with the 4 year old: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-plight-of-a-newborn-baby-stranded-in-hong-kong-119054651652.html

As to the foreign insurance, I am assuming Canadians know they should get travel insurance. Maybe medicaid recipients know that too since this woman did have some sort of travel insurance.

And I hope greenfrog still finds time to go on that trip in between accepting an offer and starting working.
post #2218 of 5117
From the gofundme comments:

"Tina, we have a very large mums facebook group of 15,000 members who I am sure are all willing to help if you could get in touch with us with more information for example which hospital you are etc. "

That sounds like the worst Facebook group ever.
post #2219 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

It says right here that the father is at home with the 4 year old: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-plight-of-a-newborn-baby-stranded-in-hong-kong-119054651652.html

As to the foreign insurance, I am assuming Canadians know they should get travel insurance. Maybe medicaid recipients know that too since this woman did have some sort of travel insurance.

And I hope greenfrog still finds time to go on that trip in between accepting an offer and starting working.

Good find. I read through a few articles and this is the first to mention him which is sort of interesting.

The Canadian mention was to demonstrate the thought this was the US social safety net is stingy yet again is probably not a valid thought. I contemplated looking into France and the UK but was too lazy.

I still have little sympathy for these folks. I have much for the baby though, not a little of which, is over his name.
post #2220 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Video of racist California (D) Congresswoman running for Senator speaks for itself:
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