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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 107

post #1591 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I am not going to look for it now, but one of the researchers on this gave a great quote - somthing like "if you want to look for areas where kids are not being vaccinated, look for where Whole Foods have recently opened." There is a high correlation, he said, between the organic, no-GMO, specia-flower crowd and the anti-vaccers.

Found it: http://news.sciencemag.org/2011/01/why-prius-driving-composting-set-fears-vaccines
Quote:
I talked to a public health official and asked him what's the best way to anticipate where there might be higher than normal rates of vaccine noncompliance, and he said take a map and put a pin wherever there's a Whole Foods. I sort of laughed, and he said, "No, really, I'm not joking." It's those communities with the Prius driving, composting, organic food-eating people. "

Edit: A medical school professor at UCLA is quoted in Salon saying basically the same thing.

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/
post #1592 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

@GreenFrog

Who is the real base of anti-vaxxers? When we look at the data, the places where kids are most likely to not be vaccinated are places like California, Seattle, Vermont and Portland. It isn't the deep south religious conservatives like people are implying.



http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/02/04/state-by-state-how-vaccination-rates-have-changed/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/29/which-states-are-the-best-and-worst-at-vaccinating-their-kids/

Who's been implying that? I freely acknowledge that my dumb-ass privileged, "new-age", dipshit neighbors (and people like them) that are a huge part of the problem. I posted this on FB the other day:

http://laist.com/2015/02/02/poor_santa_monica_baby_too_young_fo.php
post #1593 of 5129
While I completely support vaccination, the spin surrounding this outbreak is ridiculous.

1) The increased measles numbers in recent years are mostly a result of a single outbreak among the Amish, not liberals in California;

2) Of the people who've been infected in the California outbreak, 70% are either infants too young to be vaccinated, or adults too old to have skipped their vaccines because of the modern anti-vaccination movement.

3) The US has "herd immunity." That's why these outbreaks only got a hundred people. For comparison, something like 14,000 people in France got it in a single year a few years back.

4) Measles is a bad disease, but it's not particularly lethal -- something like one in a thousand cases.

If you really want to eliminate the disease, bring all the various third-world reservoirs where it is still endemic up to California's level of immunization, and it would disappear in a decade or less.
post #1594 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

While I completely support vaccination, the spin surrounding this outbreak is ridiculous.

1) The increased measles numbers in recent years are mostly a result of a single outbreak among the Amish, not liberals in California;

2) Of the people who've been infected in the California outbreak, 70% are either infants too young to be vaccinated, or adults too old to have skipped their vaccines because of the modern anti-vaccination movement.

3) The US has "herd immunity." That's why these outbreaks only got a hundred people. For comparison, something like 14,000 people in France got it in a single year a few years back.

4) Measles is a bad disease, but it's not particularly lethal -- something like one in a thousand cases.

If you really want to eliminate the disease, bring all the various third-world reservoirs where it is still endemic up to California's level of immunization, and it would disappear in a decade or less.
Some of those are fair points, but:
Herd immunity affords a great deal of protection to infants and others who can't be vaccinated. When people "opt out" of that practice, they increase the likelihood that infants and others will be exposed. And "herd immunity" isn't a boolean concept, of course. The greater the vaccination rates among those who can be vaccinated the more effective it is.
The fact that we're talking about measles is just illustrative, because of the publicity arising from the Disneyland situation and others. There were a couple of incidents of whooping cough at my kid's school last year. And there are other diseases people are choosing to skip vaccinations for. Furthermore, "bad but not particularly lethal" diseases can really fuck up infants, old people, and people with compromised immune systems -- those who have to depend on the effectiveness of the heard mentality.

I agree with you that the media focus on the "issue" is out of proportion to the relative magnitude of the problem. But that's in part because: the internet, and partly because high-profile stupid fucks like Jenny McCarthy and Rand Paul use their publicity to give encouragement to the flat-worlder idiots.
post #1595 of 5129
According to the CDC, 60% of those who were infected were adults (over 20).

I bet the reason they're not vaccinated isn't that their parents were whole food liberals, but that they're immigrants. Probably illegal immigrants. If you want your herd immunity, secure the border, Obama!
post #1596 of 5129
Anti- GMO/Vaccination/Whatever is just the left's version of scientific denial instead of global warming.

That a few people on the right happen to agree is inconsequential to determining who is crazy or not.
post #1597 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Who's been implying that?

http://www.styleforum.net/t/126677/things-you-just-dont-get/15780_30#post_7669789

That's how the topic came up.
post #1598 of 5129
I saw that, thanks. I'm not sure that calling out intellectually dishonest, pandering comments by jackass who happens to be a Southerner constitutes implying that religious conservatives from the South are the core of the anti-vaxx movement, though?
post #1599 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

I saw that, thanks. I'm not sure that calling out intellectually dishonest, pandering comments by jackass who happens to be a Southerner constitutes implying that religious conservatives from the South are the core of the anti-vaxx movement, though?

The thought of trying to get into GF's head is rather concerning but I would figure when one asks how ignorant fucks like that get elected one is assuming they hold the same opinions about hot button issues as their voters. I think this is just proof that the fringes create a political Mobius strip.
post #1600 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

The thought of trying to get into GF's head is rather concerning

smile.gif
post #1601 of 5129
It doesn't take long to find equivocal statements about vaccines from prominent Democrats when facing hotly contested primaries and need every vote (i.e., Obama and Clinton in 2008).

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/3/hillary-clinton-obama-entangled-in-vaccines-debate/
Quote:
Mrs. Clinton had responded to a questionnaire during the 2008 presidential primary race from a vaccine skeptics group in which she said, “I am committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines.”
Quote:
Several websites promptly dug up a comment from Mr. Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign in which he said the research on whether vaccines cause autism was “inconclusive.”
post #1602 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

It doesn't take long to find equivocal statements about vaccines from prominent Democrats when facing hotly contested primaries and need every vote (i.e., Obama and Clinton in 2008).


Congratulations. You win the internet.
post #1603 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

4) Measles is a bad disease, but it's not particularly lethal -- something like one in a thousand cases.

Measles has a lot of other nasty complications other than death. Deafness, blindness, brain damage. Also frequently leads to pneumonia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I bet the reason they're not vaccinated isn't that their parents were whole food liberals, but that they're immigrants. Probably illegal immigrants. If you want your herd immunity, secure the border, Obama!

A lot of the South and Central American countries have higher vaccination rates than the US. Guatemala and Honduras haven't had a reported case of measles in 25 years. Makes sense, vaccines are the best bang for the buck medicine in these poor countries.

Most all of them are above 95%, the herd immunity level.

http://theweek.com/articles/537527/illegal-immigrants-probably-arent-responsible-measles-outbreak
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries

Pretty good summary:
Quote:
pretending this is the fault of "illegal immigrants" is pure and simple political opportunism, pandering and scapegoating by people who should know better and probably do.

Yeah....
post #1604 of 5129
Having 95% of their infants vaccinated today doesn't do people who were infants there 20+ years ago any good, does it?
post #1605 of 5129
Two more points: the dangers of measles are often exaggerated. According to the CDC the incidence of serious complications (other than pneumonia, that is) of measles is about the same as the death rate -- one in a thousand. I bet there's a lot of overlap there.

Second, it's not like this would be the first time. Mexico claims high immunization rates today because in the '80s there was a huge outbreak there that spread up the west coast by way of (mostly illegal) immigrants. IIRC this was the last big outbreak in the US.
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