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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 104

post #1546 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

We're all paying for it? And more people are going to waste time dicking around in CC not actually doing anything but living off the government tit.

This isn't a European style system where your living expenses are paid while you go to school. They're just getting their (already cheap and routinely subsidized) tuition paid.

It's already a stereotype for somewhat directionless kids to hit up CC while they work some deadend job. Maybe a few more will be tempted to do this now that it's automatically free, but it's a minor cost and can really benefit some of them.

The true fuckups aren't going to want to spend any more time in school, free or not. The dedicated but poor students are going to benefit. The idea that this incentivizes people to cynically slack their way through high school and CC and backdoor their way into an excellent university is nonsense, no one is going to do that (for many reasons).
post #1547 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Also, and let's be frank here that Obama is of course pandering to his base with this program, so failing carries even more baggage. When unprepared CC folks hit that more rigorous program, and drop out, they're not going to have the insight to realize this program actually contributed to their failure, they are going to blame it on their perceived oppressors (white privilege, Republicans, racism, etc.) and become less integrated with mainstream society vs. more.

I figured it was more the 20-somethings he was pandering to. Sounds like education reform, but it's mostly a welfare program. Middle class kids aren't hurting from paying CC fees.




My worry would be more that CC are going to be pushed even further down-market by this program. A large fraction of CC resources are already learning extension (language programs, mostly) and remedial learning. I wouldn't want to see CC turn into basically a post-grad GED program. It should still be focused on college level material.


When I was teaching, I was amazing how many kids were in "intro to college algebra." That's a 9th grade class, and we had many kids who wanted to go to college and hadn't grasped it.
post #1548 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

as usual this fucking idiot didn't think it through. now every marginal kid can fuck off in high school, go to cc for 2 years and then to a real school.

I did this.
post #1549 of 5340
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I figured it was more the 20-somethings he was pandering to. Sounds like education reform, but it's mostly a welfare program. Middle class kids aren't hurting from paying CC fees.




My worry would be more that CC are going to be pushed even further down-market by this program. A large fraction of CC resources are already learning extension (language programs, mostly) and remedial learning. I wouldn't want to see CC turn into basically a post-grad GED program. It should still be focused on college level material.


When I was teaching, I was amazing how many kids were in "intro to college algebra." That's a 9th grade class, and we had many kids who wanted to go to college and hadn't grasped it.

Even when I went to CC, back in the early 90s, it was clear that about 50% of the folks there would fall under the "post-grad GED program." Being a little bit older, having actually received a decent high school education, and a little more aware I was often invited to things by the career instructors (they just loved having a good student) and there was much talk amongst them at that time. I'm saying this has already happened and I fear this will just exacerbate it as you're saying.
post #1550 of 5340
Thread Starter 
Just tossing this here as this picture is incredible.

post #1551 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I figured it was more the 20-somethings he was pandering to. Sounds like education reform, but it's mostly a welfare program. Middle class kids aren't hurting from paying CC fees.

My worry would be more that CC are going to be pushed even further down-market by this program. A large fraction of CC resources are already learning extension (language programs, mostly) and remedial learning. I wouldn't want to see CC turn into basically a post-grad GED program. It should still be focused on college level material.


When I was teaching, I was amazing how many kids were in "intro to college algebra." That's a 9th grade class, and we had many kids who wanted to go to college and hadn't grasped it.

I agree, but this is really a welfare program from these colleges, and if the program is structured anything like the student loan program, prices will dramatically rise. I just checked, and you can go to a CC for <$200/credit which comes out to <$12,000 for an associates degree. Such a degree, if done in a good program for a skill in demand, can lead to a $40-50k starting salary.

I just really don't think the students need the subsidies. At least here, cc's are heavily subsidized by the state already.

I absolutely think we need more people going to technical schools, community colleges, or just straight up apprenticing for jobs. I just don't know if this program actually helps anything.
post #1552 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I agree, but this is really a welfare program from these colleges, and if the program is structured anything like the student loan program, prices will dramatically rise. I just checked, and you can go to a CC for <$200/credit which comes out to <$12,000 for an associates degree. Such a degree, if done in a good program for a skill in demand, can lead to a $40-50k starting salary.

I just really don't think the students need the subsidies. At least here, cc's are heavily subsidized by the state already.

I absolutely think we need more people going to technical schools, community colleges, or just straight up apprenticing for jobs. I just don't know if this program actually helps anything.
None of this conversation is really necessary since congress is going to shoot this down fast. Obama basically has two years to spout out nonsense ideas for a republican led congress to shoot down. Next election cycle democrats will point to all of this as reasons why republicans hate minorities, women, the poor etc etc etc etc etc etc.
post #1553 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

We're all paying for it? And more people are going to waste time dicking around in CC not actually doing anything but living off the government tit.

This isn't a European style system where your living expenses are paid while you go to school. They're just getting their (already cheap and routinely subsidized) tuition paid.

It's already a stereotype for somewhat directionless kids to hit up CC while they work some deadend job. Maybe a few more will be tempted to do this now that it's automatically free, but it's a minor cost and can really benefit some of them.

The true fuckups aren't going to want to spend any more time in school, free or not. The dedicated but poor students are going to benefit. The idea that this incentivizes people to cynically slack their way through high school and CC and backdoor their way into an excellent university is nonsense, no one is going to do that (for many reasons).

Of course you are not going to get more slackers in CC when the government is picking up their tuition for the first two years. I mean, who's arguing otherwise?
post #1554 of 5340
Quote:
Since the 1990s, students from Mount Holyoke College, an all-women's school in Massachusetts, have staged an annual production of The Vagina Monologues. Not this year. The college is retiring the ritual over concerns that the play—penned by Eve Ensler in 1996 as a way to "celebrate the vagina" and women's sexuality—is not inclusive enough.

In a school-wide email from Mount Holyoke's student-theater board, relayed by Campus Reform, student Erin Murphy explained that "at its core, the show offers an extremely narrow perspective on what it means to be a woman ... Gender is a wide and varied experience, one that cannot simply be reduced to biological or anatomical distinctions, and many of us who have participated in the show have grown increasingly uncomfortable presenting material that is inherently reductionist and exclusive."

Not all women have vaginas, ya know.
post #1555 of 5340
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/11/free-tampons-cost-feminine-hygiene-products
Quote:
We need to move beyond the stigma of “that time of the month” – women’s feminine hygiene products should be free for all, all the time...

but seriously: Why aren’t tampons free?

PAY FOR MY TAMPONS YOU PATRIACRIST OPPRESSOR!
post #1556 of 5340
Why isn't everything free really?
post #1557 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/11/free-tampons-cost-feminine-hygiene-products
PAY FOR MY TAMPONS YOU PATRIACRIST OPPRESSOR!

They have to pay for vagina maintenance, but their vagina gets them free dinners, drinks, jewelry etc. so I'd say they're still coming out on top.
post #1558 of 5340
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by js4design View Post

They have to pay for vagina maintenance, but their vagina gets them free dinners, drinks, jewelry etc. so I'd say they're still coming out on top.

On top, on the bottom, doggy style...
post #1559 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by js4design View Post

They have to pay for vagina maintenance, but their vagina gets them free dinners, drinks, jewelry etc. so I'd say they're still coming out on top.

Some vaginas are just a liabiity.
post #1560 of 5340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Obama is proposing to make two years of community college free. As someone that first returned to post-secondary education through a community college I think that's a bad idea.

I actually think state-funded post-secondary education is an idea worth exploring, so I wanted to wait until the details on this plan came out. Well, they have. The plan, apparently, is to tax earnings in 529 accounts upon withdrawal. In addition, those earnings would be taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains. This is a rollback to the way things were before 2001 reform made 529s actually worth using.

So, basically, Obama wants to remove the only federal-level tax benefit of college savings plans. He's managing to fuck the middle class in the ass and discourage saving in one fell swoop!

facepalm.gif

So much facepalm.gif.
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