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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 103

post #1531 of 5117
as usual this fucking idiot didn't think it through. now every marginal kid can fuck off in high school, go to cc for 2 years and then to a real school.
post #1532 of 5117
The feds already pay for most people who go to community colleges, along with some extra free money to live on. Pell grants alone are $35-40 billion a year, last I heard.
post #1533 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

as usual this fucking idiot didn't think it through. now every marginal kid can fuck off in high school, go to cc for 2 years and then to a real school.

Based on my experience, at a pretty decent CC, at least 50% of the students there do not possess what most of us would consider a high school education. They went to deficient high schools and are taking remedial college/appropriate high school courses to prepare for an actual university.
post #1534 of 5117
Making CC free doesn't subsidize students even, it subsidizes the schools. This will not help anyone get an education. In fact, it will just flood these schools with more marginal candidates and interfere with people there looking to learn a valuable skill.
post #1535 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

as usual this fucking idiot didn't think it through. now every marginal kid can fuck off in high school, go to cc for 2 years and then to a real school.


 Can't they do that now?  For example anyone who graduates from NOVA (Northern VA Community College) has guaranteed admission to UVA system.  Maryland  has the same agreement with the various University of Maryland campuses.  In addition Montgomery Community College has guaranteed admission to American University, Catholic University & George Washington University as well.  I seriously doubt these are the only schools that do so

post #1536 of 5117
yes, they can but now they don't even have to pay and that makes it more attractive i guess. i mean, why even try anymore. i grew up at the wrong time when a 1600 sat was crammed down our throats. free school, the premise of basic income, the future actually sounds awesome.

but seriously, why bust ur ass in school to get into UVA if you could smoke, drink, finger girls and pull a 75 in high school, do a two year tour of duty among half- wits and then walk away with a UVA degree
post #1537 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post


 Can't they do that now?  For example anyone who graduates from NOVA (Northern VA Community College) has guaranteed admission to UVA system.  Maryland  has the same agreement with the various University of Maryland campuses.  In addition Montgomery Community College has guaranteed admission to American University, Catholic University & George Washington University as well.  I seriously doubt these are the only schools that do so

There are still GPA requirements though. You need a pretty good GPA at CC to get into UVA or William and Mary, can't just roll in with a 2.0. It's hardly an easy backdoor.
post #1538 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

but seriously, why bust ur ass in school to get into UVA if you could smoke, drink, finger girls and pull a 75 in high school, do a two year tour of duty among half- wits and then walk away with a UVA degree

Anyone who takes that approach through high school and CC is going to fail out their first semester at a competitive school. Already tough transferring in as a junior with the more competitive climate and different expectations, throw in a general lack of preparation and they're fucked.
post #1539 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


There are still GPA requirements though. You need a pretty good GPA at CC to get into UVA or William and Mary, can't just roll in with a 2.0. It's hardly an easy backdoor.

 

It varies though:  2.75 for GW, 2.85 for George Mason, 3.45 for VA Tech, 2.0 for VSU.  Who can't maintain a 2.0?

post #1540 of 5117
So it's easy to get into the least selective schools in the state if you jump through the hoops of doing two years of community college. I'm not really seeing the problem here.
post #1541 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

So it's easy to get into the least selective schools in the state if you jump through the hoops of doing two years of community college. I'm not really seeing the problem here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

but seriously, why bust ur ass in school to get into UVA if you could smoke, drink, finger girls and pull a 75 in high school, do a two year tour of duty among half- wits and then walk away with a UVA degree

And of course there are other private schools that have the same agreement. AU, GW & American are hardly non-selective schools. AU is 20,658/year, Catholic is $39,200/year & GW is $48,700/year, For those who are serious about their education it is a win-win: cheap tuition for the first 2 years yet the same degree. MC is $1700 for 15 credits or about $2,400/year and NVCC is about $4300

Now this free community college scheme basically cuts the price of a 4 year degree in half if one decided to go the CC route. Nothing actually changes except the cost of teh CC. If a student isn't serious and doesn't make it through CC then who loses? Surely not the serious yet poor student. The end result is a huge chunk getting cut off of student loans. Where is the downside?
Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 1/10/15 at 12:18am
post #1542 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post


And of course there are other private schools that have the same agreement. AU, GW & American are hardly non-selective schools. AU is 20,658/year, Catholic is $39,200/year & GW is $48,700/year, For those who are serious about their education it is a win-win: cheap tuition for the first 2 years yet the same degree. MC is $1700 for 15 credits or about $2,400/year and NVCC is about $4300

Now this free community college scheme basically cuts the price of a 4 year degree in half if one decided to go the CC route. Nothing actually changes except the cost of teh CC. If a student isn't serious and doesn't make it through CC then who loses? Surely not the serious yet poor student. The end result is a huge chunk getting cut off of student loans. Where is the downside?

We're all paying for it? And more people are going to waste time dicking around in CC not actually doing anything but living off the government tit.
post #1543 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post


We're all paying for it? And more people are going to waste time dicking around in CC not actually doing anything but living off the government tit.

 

I haven't really looked at the program specifics yet (have they even released any?) so I can't say one way or the other.  I bet some number cruncher will theorize that the future tax revenue from graduates' earnings will offset the waste of the government tit hangers.  The idea that a student must put themselves in serious debt in order to get an education is an odd one and IMO is a serious problem in America today


Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 1/10/15 at 2:08am
post #1544 of 5117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Anyone who takes that approach through high school and CC is going to fail out their first semester at a competitive school. Already tough transferring in as a junior with the more competitive climate and different expectations, throw in a general lack of preparation and they're fucked.

Also, and let's be frank here that Obama is of course pandering to his base with this program, so failing carries even more baggage. When unprepared CC folks hit that more rigorous program, and drop out, they're not going to have the insight to realize this program actually contributed to their failure, they are going to blame it on their perceived oppressors (white privilege, Republicans, racism, etc.) and become less integrated with mainstream society vs. more.
post #1545 of 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

I bet some number cruncher will theorize that the future tax revenue from graduates' earnings will offset the waste of the government tit hangers.

That is what they say. It works for K-12 for sure.

Coulson-Cato-PS-Cost-Scores-2010-s.jpg

I was going to post a chart of real wages but for some reason all the ones I found showed them being flat over the period even though education spending has quadrupled.
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