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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 101

post #1501 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

You didn't get I specifically mentioned Russia and indicated the fact they were no longer supporting Cuba was key?

You said this is the most effective time in decades due to the Venezuelan and Russian economies being in shambles. I would've thought the early 1990's would've been the worst time. When Russian subsidies stopped, which you didn't mention.
post #1502 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

You said this is the most effective time in decades due to the Venezuelan and Russian economies being in shambles. I would've thought the early 1990's would've been the worst time. When Russian subsidies stopped, which you didn't mention.

Ah, gotcha. I was judging that with both Russia and Venezuela out now is crunch time.
post #1503 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Arguing about who is to blame for what the people of Cuba have suffered over the past years and decades as though "blame" is a hot potato that has to end up in the lap of a single actor is disingenuous and unproductive. I'm not informed enough to have a confident opinion about what the best answer is here, but I'm pretty sure that you have to start by framing relevant questions.

My question was a bit rhetorical but I think I was clear of where I stand. I blame the regime for strangling economic development in Cuba, not the embargo. The embargo hasn't prevented the US from sending billions in medicine/food to Cuba over the years; the embargo hasn't prevented almost 3M tourists per year from coming there; the embargo hasn't prevented US people with families still in Cuban sending money/aid to their Cuban family members, etc. Anyhow, discussing the merits of the embargo are debatable now. That really wasn't my original point.
post #1504 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post

My question was a bit rhetorical but I think I was clear of where I stand. I blame the regime for strangling economic development in Cuba, not the embargo. The embargo hasn't prevented the US from sending billions in medicine/food to Cuba over the years; the embargo hasn't prevented almost 3M tourists per year from coming there; the embargo hasn't prevented US people with families still in Cuban sending money/aid to their Cuban family members, etc. Anyhow, discussing the merits of the embargo are debatable now. That really wasn't my original point.
Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.cheers.gif
post #1505 of 5129
And the cigars start flowing, correct? confused.gif
post #1506 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post

The embargo hasn't prevented the US from sending billions in medicine/food to Cuba over the years; the embargo hasn't prevented almost 3M tourists per year from coming there; the embargo hasn't prevented US people with families still in Cuban sending money/aid to their Cuban family members, etc. Anyhow, discussing the merits of the embargo are debatable now. That really wasn't my original point.

I tried to find any info on Google to back up what you have stated there , but found nothing. Billions of aid, sending money freely, traveling with no restrictions to Cuba as tourist , where do you get this info?
post #1507 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Ah, gotcha. I was judging that with both Russia and Venezuela out now is crunch time.
Russia is not out , they just wrote off the Cuban debt and in echange opened Spy center to listen on US . Center that was closed for over 15 years.
RUS budget has surplus this year. So writing RUS off because of temporary Oil play is premature, the oil will pop next year on Asian demand and everything will be rosy again.

P.S. Sanctions were pointless to begin with and some suggestions that if only we had waited long enough remind me some numbsculls arguments about Vietnam war. (not putting words in anyones mouth, noone here suggested any of that)...
post #1508 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

I tried to find any info on Google to back up what you have stated there , but found nothing. Billions of aid, sending money freely, traveling with no restrictions to Cuba as tourist , where do you get this info?

Regarding tourists per year, I was referring to general Cuban tourism (I'm guessing mostly Canadian/European). I wasn't referring to US folks going to Cuba.

As for billions of aid, it's been going on for decades, but not widely reported...here's one link I found.

http://www.cubatrade.org/CubaExportStats.pdf

$5B since 2000. Healthcare products had been exported since early 90s. I'm sure if I look hard enough, I can find it going back even further.

Lastly, as for sending money (I never said "freely"), honestly, I encourage you to google it. Personally, I know of it happening quite a bit growing up in the Cuban community. It is widely talked about and done very often. I'm sure there are some difficulties in doing it but it happens.
Edited by gumercindo - 12/18/14 at 1:10pm
post #1509 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post

Regarding tourists per year, I was referring to general Cuban tourism (I'm guessing mostly Canadian/European). I wasn't referring to US folks going to Cuba.

As for billions of aid, it's been going on for decades, but not widely reported...here's one link I found.

http://www.cubatrade.org/CubaExportStats.pdf

$5B since 2000. Healthcare products had been exported since early 90s. I'm sure if I look hard enough, I can find it going back even further.

Lastly, as for sending money (I never said "freely"), honestly, I encourage you to google it. Personally, I know of it happening quite a bit growing up in the Cuban community. It is widely talked about and done very often. I'm sure there are some difficulties in doing it but it happens.

This is not aid this is trade you know . So I am still not convinced US provided any aid to Cuba as you have claimed.

Bi-lateral trade in food and medicine was never banned I think. US purchased vaccines from Cuba among other things. Sailships were also exempt from embargo by maritime law and could freely dock in Cuba for refueling and supplies.
Cuba built some tourist infrastructure mostly to attract Canadians , Germans , Italians. I know a few people personally in Europe who visited Cuba multiple times as tourists. It is quite common here actually. I visited Cuba twice myself while living in US.
I hope feds do away with embargo completely, imho it is quite embarrassing for US to have it.
post #1510 of 5129
You're right - I mistakenly referred to it as aid in my reply when I did not in my original post. The over archingpoint was that despite the embargo, cuba has actively paid for all those goods (how/if they paid is another issue). In other words, blaming the embargo for economic challenges, food shortages, etc, is taking these things into account.

As for your comments on tourism, I'm not quite sure where you're going with that.
post #1511 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post

Lastly, as for sending money (I never said "freely"), honestly, I encourage you to google it. Personally, I know of it happening quite a bit growing up in the Cuban community. It is widely talked about and done very often. I'm sure there are some difficulties in doing it but it happens.

When were you growing up? This has changed quite a bit back and forth over the years depending how much the sitting president wants to spite the Cubans.
post #1512 of 5129
Born in 74
post #1513 of 5129
Been a while since I dipped a toe into the CEsspool echo-chamber. Good to see that some things never change ... cool.gif

Surprised that piob made no reference to Ontario's election in June. Among other things it saw off the last remnants of the Ford administration (that'd be fat, crack-smoking Rob and his creepy brother Doug) in Toronto, and the implosion of the Progressive Conservative (how's that for an oxymoron?) Party of Ontario, which was reduced to a rural rump of angry, old white folk as the Liberals swept to an unlikely majority despite record deficits and economic doldrums. Maybe his Windsor family remnants don't vote?

Drums are beating for a Federal Election up here in the Great White North, maybe as soon as the Spring. I predict that Harper's Conservatives will cling to power, perhaps with a reduced majority or at worst a minority.
post #1514 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eg1 View Post

Been a while since I dipped a toe into the CEsspool echo-chamber. Good to see that some things never change ... cool.gif

Surprised that piob made no reference to Ontario's election in June. Among other things it saw off the last remnants of the Ford administration (that'd be fat, crack-smoking Rob and his creepy brother Doug) in Toronto, and the implosion of the Progressive Conservative (how's that for an oxymoron?) Party of Ontario, which was reduced to a rural rump of angry, old white folk as the Liberals swept to an unlikely majority despite record deficits and economic doldrums. Maybe his Windsor family remnants don't vote?

Drums are beating for a Federal Election up here in the Great White North, maybe as soon as the Spring. I predict that Harper's Conservatives will cling to power, perhaps with a reduced majority or at worst a minority.

Don't forget that whooper of a shit storm over the electricity plants that don't exist but cost billions.

I do love the passive aggressive swipe at everyone in the CE though...so Canadian.
post #1515 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Don't forget that whooper of a shit storm over the electricity plants that don't exist but cost billions.

I do love the passive aggressive swipe at everyone in the CE though...so Canadian.

Yes, that atrocious give-in to the epicentre of Ontario's NIMBYism, Oakville, was a disgrace. For this, the Ornge scandal, and other embarrassments typical of governments so long in the tooth, the Ontario Liberal Party should have been dead in the water. Only Hudak's incompetence and his party's cognitive enslavement to certain tired elements of your Republicanism snatched defeat from the almost certain jaws of victory.

As for my wry observations about this particularly foetid swamp in the forum, older and better poasters than I have long since given up on it. The ones that I'm thinking of have all been Amerks. smile.gif
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