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Daily CE Musings of Piob - Page 94

post #1396 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Lots of dumb in that story, but I don't get the Orwellian connection. Guy has a bar. Bunch of idiots get stupid about the name and try to get him to change it. He says no. No governmental action (unless I missed it in skimming) occurs. Everyone goes back to their regular programming. No?

The Orwell bit has to do with vilifying the term "Illegal" to the point where it loses meaning.
post #1397 of 5129
That makes sense - thanks. fing02[1].gif
post #1398 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

That makes sense - thanks. fing02[1].gif

What can I say? It's not every day I get two posts called out by Lawyerdad... gotta be on my toes w/ the answers.
post #1399 of 5129
I'm enjoying Obama's public haranguing of the FCC re: net neutrality. His chief technology officer was on PBS NewsHour going on about how this is just a continuation of the current "light regulation" of the Internet, how it will allow innovation to continue, etc. Except...imposing Title II regulations on the Internet means bureaucrats fix the prices ISPs can charge. It's actually the opposite of light regulations. confused.gif
post #1400 of 5129
It's ok, at least 51% of the country still won't get it in two years time.
post #1401 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post

I'm enjoying Obama's public haranguing of the FCC re: net neutrality. His chief technology officer was on PBS NewsHour going on about how this is just a continuation of the current "light regulation" of the Internet, how it will allow innovation to continue, etc. Except...imposing Title II regulations on the Internet means bureaucrats fix the prices ISPs can charge. It's actually the opposite of light regulations. confused.gif

War is peace.

As I said above, more heavily regulate it to keep it free....

Don't let private owners/actors pick who they want to business with and how...that's clearly the role for the Obama administration as the whole Solyndra thing demonstrated.
post #1402 of 5129
Y'all need to check your ableist white male privilege.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/11/smith-college-paper-considers-the-word-c
post #1403 of 5129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post

Y'all need to check your ableist white male w-word m-word privilege.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/11/smith-college-paper-considers-the-word-c

FTFY. Don't go using such provocative language without the appropriate trigger warnings.
post #1404 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post

Y'all need to check your ableist white male privilege.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/11/smith-college-paper-considers-the-word-c

Southern plantation owner dog whistle for Oppression(TM)
post #1405 of 5129
I've just gotten to the point where I don't even bother responding to people's FB posts. People constantly are posting pro-regulate internet articles and how the Republicans only won because they outspent dems.
post #1406 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I've just gotten to the point where I don't even bother responding to people's FB posts. People constantly are posting pro-regulate internet articles and how the Republicans only won because they outspent dems.

I can only suggest that you learn to laugh. You are not going to get certain people to think. Certain elements of the left are at war with reason.
post #1407 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I've just gotten to the point where I don't even bother responding to people's FB posts. People constantly are posting pro-regulate internet articles and how the Republicans only won because they outspent dems.

That's silly. Republicans won because the lack of appropriate internet regulation left it vulnerable to manipulation by Nazis.
post #1408 of 5129
I'm ok with all of the net neutrality chatter even if some of it is misguided--hopefully if prompts more people to find out more about how things work and why the internet is not a series of tubes (and why data should just be data).

I tend to think we do need a regulation--namely a regulation that prevents the ISPs from creating their own arbitrary regulations over your internet use without any oversight. The internet shouldn't really be regulated but I feel that the market has broken down here and needs a bit of a guiding hand. Large swaths of the country are at the mercy of a single monopoly carrier if they want anything resembling broadband. The broadband they can get is a joke compared to other parts of the developed world (with similar population densities) since the monopoly carriers aren't motivated by any meaningful competition...and in fact actively fight for legislation that would halt any potential competition.
And these aren't hypothetical problems...various ISPs have already shown that they are more than willing to engage in traffic shaping and filtering. When companies that provide an essential service aren't willing to play nice...sometimes somebody else has to step in.

Is a full Title II classification taking it too far? Maybe, but other approaches have yet to work.
Maybe forcing net neutrality isn't even the right solution. Subsidize some fiber build-out instead to replace the aging (subsidized) copper networks. There was meaningful competition when it came to dial-up--why wouldn't we expect to see ISPs arise that pledge not to engage in traffic shaping and let the customers choose?
Maybe just create some better rules for describing internet speeds/caps/performance. Right now, comcast sells me a "50mbit" connection which basically means nothing. I regularly get less than that since it is an "up to" definition...but how do I know if I get a full 50 when streaming HBO Go and Hulu, but only 20 when streaming Netflix? Not due to internet-wide traffic, but because comcast doesn't want to support the service they don't have a financial interest in. It certainly doesn't say anything about that in the paperwork you agree to when you sign up. Make them put that in the contract, give me a tool to see what domains might be subject to lower speeds...then at least I can make an informed decision when I choose my ISP rather than have them slow me to a crawl 6 months after I sign up with them.
post #1409 of 5129
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure we can treat bandwidth like a utility or at least as it's currently delivered. We pay per unit of water, electricity, gas, etc. we use. Prior to the Internet age long distance phone service was cost prohibitive. Can anyone remember staying up until midnight to make a long distance call because the rates dropped? Everyone got a minute to say "hi" to a distant relative? With cable, which I think was ruled a necessity of life by Congress, you pay per service.

Bandwidth doesn't seem to work that way. One guy checks his email weekly and another guy is continuously playing WoW and streaming Netflix but they both pay the same price. We also reach out to the world in a different way with bandwidth. Telecommute, do web commerce work, post on SF, etc. It's a different character than turning on the flame to the stove top.

IDK, just rambling, but I think bandwidth is not like what we've called a "utility" up until now.
post #1410 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

I'm ok with all of the net neutrality chatter even if some of it is misguided--hopefully if prompts more people to find out more about how things work and why the internet is not a series of tubes (and why data should just be data).

I tend to think we do need a regulation--namely a regulation that prevents the ISPs from creating their own arbitrary regulations over your internet use without any oversight. The internet shouldn't really be regulated but I feel that the market has broken down here and needs a bit of a guiding hand. Large swaths of the country are at the mercy of a single monopoly carrier if they want anything resembling broadband. The broadband they can get is a joke compared to other parts of the developed world (with similar population densities) since the monopoly carriers aren't motivated by any meaningful competition...and in fact actively fight for legislation that would halt any potential competition.
And these aren't hypothetical problems...various ISPs have already shown that they are more than willing to engage in traffic shaping and filtering. When companies that provide an essential service aren't willing to play nice...sometimes somebody else has to step in.

Is a full Title II classification taking it too far? Maybe, but other approaches have yet to work.
Maybe forcing net neutrality isn't even the right solution. Subsidize some fiber build-out instead to replace the aging (subsidized) copper networks. There was meaningful competition when it came to dial-up--why wouldn't we expect to see ISPs arise that pledge not to engage in traffic shaping and let the customers choose?
Maybe just create some better rules for describing internet speeds/caps/performance. Right now, comcast sells me a "50mbit" connection which basically means nothing. I regularly get less than that since it is an "up to" definition...but how do I know if I get a full 50 when streaming HBO Go and Hulu, but only 20 when streaming Netflix? Not due to internet-wide traffic, but because comcast doesn't want to support the service they don't have a financial interest in. It certainly doesn't say anything about that in the paperwork you agree to when you sign up. Make them put that in the contract, give me a tool to see what domains might be subject to lower speeds...then at least I can make an informed decision when I choose my ISP rather than have them slow me to a crawl 6 months after I sign up with them.

I think you're right in part, but I think it is regulation that is causing the underlying problem. At least here in Minneapolis, the city doesn't let others in or make it cost prohibitive to setup shop. That's why Google is only in a few markets (among other reasons).
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