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The state of white tie - Page 7

post #91 of 110
Thread Starter 
I posted the below on my blog today.

Karl Heinz Grasser, an Austrian Politician and husband of Fiona Swarovski, the heir of the Swarovski crystal manufacturers, seen below in two different evening tailcoats.

The first one exhibit typical Neapolitan handwork, and was most probably made by Sartoria GiannI Volpe (my tailor BTW, although he has not confirmed this to me), of which Mr Grasser has previously confirmed in interviews of being a customer. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The second one, an older picture, Mr Grasser spot a different coat, probably made in Austria: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #92 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

The first one exhibit typical Neapolitan handwork..... Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The second one, an older picture, Mr Grasser spot a different coat, probably made in Austria: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Well, I can't see the Neapolitan handiwork (which might well be there) in the photograph, nor can I comment (due to the way the pictures are cropped) on stylistic differences in sleeves or body.

What I can see, the second coat has the gorge some two inches lower than the first one. To me the low-slung gorge is a typical Italian feature of the 1980 - 90s. It was Armani who dropped the gorge considerably and every Italian designer/manufacturer took it up. (Whether or not Neapolitan tailors followed that trend, I wouldn't know.) I believe the second tail coat was a very fashionable Italian number some twenty years ago.

If you watch "People vs O J Simpson" on the telly (set in 1994/5) you can see the "power suits" of that period as worn by O J's defence team: double-breasted, big shoulder padding, wide lapels, low button point and extremely low gorge.
post #93 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Well, I can't see the Neapolitan handiwork (which might well be there) in the photograph, nor can I comment (due to the way the pictures are cropped) on stylistic differences in sleeves or body. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
What I can see, the second coat has the gorge some two inches lower than the first one. To me the low-slung gorge is a typical Italian feature of the 1980 - 90s. It was Armani who dropped the gorge considerably and every Italian designer/manufacturer took it up. (Whether or not Neapolitan tailors followed that trend, I wouldn't know.) I believe the second tail coat was a very fashionable Italian number some twenty years ago.

If you watch "People vs O J Simpson" on the telly (set in 1994/5) you can see the "power suits" of that period as worn by O J's defence team: double-breasted, big shoulder padding, wide lapels, low button point and extremely low gorge.

Hi @bengal-stripe

The first coat has the typical double pick stitch on the lapel and boutonnière as done by the traditional Neapolitan school, which is absent on the second, as well as the gorge and peak shape (the Neapolitan is pointer and even from the angle, you can spot the edge curvature).
Edited by marcodalondra - 3/9/16 at 7:05am
post #94 of 110
I hereby subscribe.
post #95 of 110
I found this article so sad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/fashion/when-a-workout-is-black-tie.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share NYTimes: Orchestras Get in Tune With Modern Black-Tie

That abomination is not even black tie. It's some perversion of white tie.

*sigh*
post #96 of 110
It's terrible. Why not ditch the tails and go with a mess jacket style if you're starting from the ground up? 95% of orchestral musicians are sitting when they play, so bum-coverage is irrelevant.

If you're worried about heat, why design such a layered outfit?

Musicians complain about their clothes being "hot and restrictive" because most of them are wearing wool/poly blend ex-rental tailcoats and trousers. Also a lot wear full-back 5-button vests instead of the proper backless 3 button white tie vest.

The collar thing I get, but the execution is poor and shows very little understanding of classic menswear and the silhouette it is intended to create.

IMO this comes off as more of a half-assed bastardization of white tie—a sloppy, modern interpretation of white tie at that—than a unique, fresh approach to formalwear.
post #97 of 110

"See how the experts do it"

 

From 2:10 is especially troubling...

post #98 of 110
Oh my god. I couldn't stop laughing when the second guy came out! crackup[1].gif
post #99 of 110
Model #2's attire is dreadful. The "expert" commentary is worse.
post #100 of 110

Crossposting for effect from the Official wedding attire thread.

Quote:

So, I'm getting married in morning dress, as pictured in my earlier post. 1500 ceremony, followed by a short Danube river cruise before the reception at 1800. The plan was to change into black-tie for the reception, but then again you only get married twice, statistically. So, I perused E & Bay et al, and happened upon an evening tailcoat, or queue de pie as it was listed on the French eBay site (I love Google translate).  It fit reasonably well, a smidgen tight in the shoulders, but I think I'll live. Now, the problem is finding a fitting waistcoat. My trousers are cut for braces, fishtail and all, 14" rise. Single "fancy braid" stripe, which you'll just have to forgive me. Coat measures 20" from top of shoulder to point of cutaway when worn. I measure 18“ from top of shirt shoulder to waistband. My question is, would a waistcoat panel length of 19-20" be right? When worn, is the top of the panel at the top of the shoulder? I'd like to avoid making a bum purchase where the waistcoat peaks way out under the cutaway, or leaves a gap over the waistband (usual suspects). Having one made is not an option financially, I'm already way over budget... 

 

Oh, pics

 

 

 

Yeah, taking pics in the mirror oneself is less than ideal. 
Tails end behind the knee, so a tad too short? Also, a bit of waistband barely shows in the corner of the cutaway by the lateral brace-button, so I fear a touch of white is unavoidable. I guess this was made for someone a bit shorter than me. 
Thoughts? Sell this and stick with black-tie, or could this be serviceable?

Also, shorten sleeves?

post #101 of 110

 

Politics aside, the kit doesn't appear to fit Mr. Trump very well; thoughts?

post #102 of 110

Does he ever wear anything that fits? I'll give him this, he was better dressed than many present on the dais at the dinner. There were even turndown collars aplenty, even one with the top button undone. 

 

Edit: words and stuff

post #103 of 110
I'm pretty happy with how well my grandfather's rig fits me without any changes:

post #104 of 110
Looks damn near perfect. But I've always preferred the late-lamented City Gent Erik over the more recent Wannabe Country Squire Erik!

My biggest beef with white tie is the horrific white bands of waistcoat peeking out from beneath the front quarters of the tail coat. No problem for you there!
post #105 of 110
I am a country boy at heart, always been biggrin.gif
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