Friday WAYWRN Challenge: CM does SWD.

in stitches said:

i do not think most SWDers have MC gear that would pass muster. from what i see there its only a few, most of whom were MCs guys at some point, and then shoreman and SVB, but outside of that, i have not seem much great MC success there. and again, i think that is because most guys there dont care for MC, which is fine, and hence, do not put the time, money or energy into a mode of dress they do not find appealing.

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Only one way to find out

GDL that knit is BBBF?

welp, if you can get errone, or at least a bunch of solid SWDers, to agree to show their best MC gear fits, i would love to see it.

KingJulien said:

Can we agree that the fit on these is bad, and that the shoes are far too dressy to wear with blue jeans?

Jeans don't really have to be slim to look good, but if you're going to go wider you need to make some other changes like wearing the proper footwear and top. A lot of CM guys just wear what they normally wear - dress shoes, tweed blazer - and throw on a pair of indigo jeans that fit like suit pants, only they don't drape at all so obviously it doesn't work.

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Let's talk about some of this.

I kind of dig bit loafers with denim -- I've done it myself. Now, I'm starting to think I need a new pair of jeans. I think I need something short enough that I can just have a sewn hem rather than a cuff, with slimmer legs, and in a darker wash (basically the jeans in your "good" example). Make that happen, and ditch the PS, and I'd repeat this.

I also like them with, like, white jeans (I have a pair of those that fit) and a navy blazer as sort of a louche look.

KingJulien said:

GDL that knit is BBBF?

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Correct. Couple of seasons ago

i dont really like bit loafers at all with denim. sorry broseph.

to me it usually looks like, "hey, bit loafers are casual, jeans are casual too!" but 1 + 1 =/= 2 in this case for me.

Bit loafers are horrible in general, though, so...

YRR92 said:

Let's talk about some of this.

I kind of dig bit loafers with denim -- I've done it myself. Now, I'm starting to think I need a new pair of jeans. I think I need something short enough that I can just have a sewn hem rather than a cuff, with slimmer legs, and in a darker wash (basically the jeans in your "good" example). Make that happen, and ditch the PS, and I'd repeat this.

I also like them with, like, white jeans (I have a pair of those that fit) and a navy blazer as sort of a louche look.

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I don't know what a bit loafer is since loafers in general are not my thing, but louche is a pretty good word for the casual loafer look. Or hungover. Here are some pics of loafers in a sw&d context






I can't find any with jeans that don't look like a #menswear nightmare.

I think it's kind of tough, because I'm into CM enough that a lot of those looks are either bizarro-CM, or would be better with different shoes. I guess the path of least resistance would be trousers for those, and jeans for chelsea boots/suede chukkas.



cyc wid it said:

Just a quick observation after browsing some WAYWRN casual fits:

A majority of CM tends to view casual clothing as an afterthought much like a majority of SW&D views suiting (and more formal wear) as an afterthought. Obviously there are exceptions. Also, the casual spectrum on this side of the forum is very narrow. You pretty much get fits that range from B-reel shots of a J. Press/Brooks catalog to outlet Polo mishmash fits with the occasional wannabe Pitti/GQ. There's hardly even workwear/outdoorsy type fits. I don't see any designer stuff. It's also very odd that people who obsess over degrees of sleeve pitch in suiting or the warmth (or lack thereof) of a certain shade of blue can't figure out how to buy a pair of jeans that fit decently. At the bare minimum, I would think that translating some of the same ideas that ground normal CM fits to more casual looks should produce something inoffensive.

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Is it really that odd though? I think there are people here that view dressing in coat and tie as kind of a classical art form that at some point caught their interest, and may have some professional relevance for them. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're interested in design principles generally.

I don't think people have a general obligation to have an intrinsic interest in clothing. MC types in particular (and I think I've been guilty of this at times) sometimes view tasteless dressing in coat and tie as a kind of moral sin, like littering or not bathing. But I don't think this is really useful or fair. Some people just really don't care too much about what they wear. Within the pretty wide boundaries of what's acceptable for your social setting, I think that's perfectly fine.

Likewise some people who wear coat and tie and care a lot about it just have no interest in their non-coat-and-tie clothing. If they're not wearing a suit, they figure they might as well be wearing sweatpants. Or dad jeans. Whatever. It's not that they think it looks great, it's that the idea of it having aesthetic value doesn't even penetrate their consciousness.

My own outlook is similar to Holdfast's articulate statement above. I take a look at SW&D stuff occasionally; I try to keep an open mind about the really odd silhouettes, and sometimes find them interesting. But wearing them would be totally inimical to my personality and the role I find myself playing in most of the social settings I'm in. So my tastes in casual clothing also veer towards more "classic" - the A-1 bombers, cords, cable knits and cardigans, etc...some stuff from brands that I gather are more discussed on the SW&D side of the forum. But I'm not near as obsessive about it as I sometimes am with coat and tie.

in stitches said:

welp, if you can get errone, or at least a bunch of solid SWDers, to agree to show their best MC gear fits, i would love to see it.

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+1

1. Not to point out the obvious, but this is a CHALLENGE. The whole point of these things is that we all know what status quo looks like for you, the regular MC WAYW poster out there. And sure, people who regularly post good SW&D fits could post and probably win, but it misses the whole point of it being a challenge. We're not looking for you to take your normal suit+shirt+tie and convert it one notch to 'casual' by changing it to tieless, loafers, and a cardigan. That's MC lite and we see it enough. Instead, push yourself and make it a challenge to get inspired by a whole different lifestyle and aesthetic based on the SW&D perspective. Take a risk and try out new items you wouldn't normally look at, or put together combinations of items you already own to make a new look you never normally would have tried. The voting, the prize of winning, is based on the result of the risk you took that maybe you'll totally miss or totally hit, but chances are you'll get more votes for being someone who's normally totally consistent in something conservative business dress and instead whipped out something amazing and novel. There's a pretty good chance that people who play both sides of the fence regularly and have developed a consistent look in SW&D (eg Parker, NOBD, MoK, etc) might win, but hopefully voters will remember the spirit of the challenge and vote for someone who's really stretched themselves from their consistent normal MC comfort zone into the SW&D world, with some 'respect' given and a real genuine attempt to match the aesthetic.

SUGGESTION - maybe entrants should post their best 'normal 9-5 conservative business dress office wear look, and then their entry to show how far they're stretching their wardrobe skillz?

2. Hey you old fuddy duddy MC guys - go get inspired... and also instead of looking at the regular flow of the SW&D WAYW, take a look at a macro level of the fits we generally agree are the best - http://www.styleforum.net/t/243095/official-best-of-waywt-favorite-fits/500_100

Why has this thread turned into a SW&D lecture?

My comment was in response to the general attitude of this sub-forum to "SW&D" dressing, not this "challenge" specifically. I think the challenges are fun diversions, but not sure about their value as a tool for "improving" your dressing "skills." The more general discussion is more interesting to me than what should be the grading rubric for this challenge, but maybe it should be moved to a different thread.



KingJulien said:

I don't know what a bit loafer is since loafers in general are not my thing, but louche is a pretty good word for the casual loafer look.  Or hungover.  Here are some pics of loafers in a sw&d context

I can't find any with jeans that don't look like a #menswear nightmare.

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I wish I could find a full pic but imagine it with a lot more tattoos, a white tee and a black rider's jacket.

I guess some of my comments can come off preachy, but we're on a clothing enthusiast forum right? It's mostly a response to the common idea on this side that casual wear lacks aesthetic value. As a result, there's a lack of understanding. The people who just want to look passable at work generally lurk sale threads and post a few random questions from time to time. I would assume that everyone reading this thread is interested in clothing.