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Black NYC shoppers claim racial profiling - Page 2

post #16 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svenn View Post

Maybe someone with experience working in 'high-end' retail can chime in, but I find it highly unlikely that burdensome customers without the means to purchase an item come about very often at all; and even if they did, that they would be such a massive drain on the resources of the staff. My hunch is that the employees are much more interested in making the store look pretty, rather than bogged down by the unwashed.

IME they(SA) usually ignore, rather than spend much time on you

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

From the pov of the firm, the greater concern is not wasted employee time, but theft. In these cases, theft through CC fraud.

IIRC, the store will receive their money, but the card issuer takes the loss.

Both racism and classism exist. I have experienced both, mainly because I prefer to dress in sneakers on the weekends. I usually make it a point to speak with the manager when it happens and then usually come back later in the week, in business attire, and solicit the same salesperson that snubbed me, make a purchase to show them I can afford it and then later on make it a point to return said item to "teach" the SA a lesson about judging people.
post #17 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffsWood View Post

I can't say anything as extreme as all that. I was once refused entry into a higher end store that I was going in to to make a $5K purchase. I am clean cut and wear a suit five days per week but on the weekends I tend to not make much of an effort. This happened one day when I had been off so I did not have a clean shave and I had been do some reno - type work around my place, so I looked pretty rough. I got caught up with what I was doing and realized the store was closing in 20minutes and I wanted to get my purchase made, so I walked over there as is. When I got there they had 15minutes till close and though they were letting other people in they told me 'sorry we are closing' I told them I would be about 5minutes as I knew what I wanted to buy, but they still refused to let me in. I guess she thought I was homeless guy as they are some in the area.

I went over there on the Monday dressed as I do for work and raised hell with the manager and did end up buying the item at cost.

This in no way compares to racial profiling, it is more like a Pretty Women story.

Boy, you must really dress down.

Anyway, these days with entertainers and tech industry professions I think it's pretty insane to turn down service based on how someone presents himself. There are plenty of rich people who slum it most of the time.
post #18 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyasih View Post

IME they(SA) usually ignore, rather than spend much time on you
IIRC, the store will receive their money, but the card issuer takes the loss.

Actually, it's the opposite. Hence why CCs are happy to guarantee you against any fraud...
post #19 of 90
^Thanks
post #20 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joffrey View Post

Boy, you must really dress down.


It wasn't that bad, most likely just jeans a T-shit and a ball cap, but I would have looked a bit dirty as I has been working in my shop.
Edited by JeffsWood - 10/27/13 at 9:41am
post #21 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffsWood View Post

It wasn't that bad, most likely just jeans a T-shit and a ball cap, but I would looked a bit dirty as I has been working in my shop.

Well, there you go.
post #22 of 90
That made me howl! I guess I shouldn't post at 4am
post #23 of 90
Lots of attention is being paid to the actions of Macys and Barney's. However, there needs to be an even greater disgust with NYPD for detaining people without justification and for spending taxpayer dollars as a private security service for those establishments.
post #24 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyasih View Post

Both racism and classism exist. I have experienced both, mainly because I prefer to dress in sneakers on the weekends. I usually make it a point to speak with the manager when it happens and then usually come back later in the week, in business attire, and solicit the same salesperson that snubbed me, make a purchase to show them I can afford it and then later on make it a point to return said item to "teach" the SA a lesson about judging people.

Why on earth are you going through that much effort to prove your worth/bankroll to a salesperson? Moreover, buying something and returning it proves nothing at all about your ability to spend... just your credit limit.

What a waste of time.
post #25 of 90

In these types of cases, I think the general public needs to get a better grasp on the meaning and importance of private property. Strong private property rights are necessary for a free society. Utopia is impossible and sometimes annoying things can happen when you live in a free society. It doesn't mean you can infringe on the rights of others private property just because something seemed rude or annoying.

 

Think about the discrimination that takes place in the stereotypical exclusive velvet-rope night club regarding letting in and serving some but not others. What kind of response do you think a white suburbanite guy would get walking into certain black urban barbershops. Should you be able to sue a mom-and-pop bodega because they give discounts to certain friends and family from their same country of origin but not you? All people are tribal and "tribes" can be based all sorts of different factors. Discrimination is exercised by each and every person all day long and is necessary for survival on the planet earth.

 

Trying to parse out what kinds of discrimination are ok and which are not is a waste of time and a losing battle, especially since they are based on transitory human thoughts that even the so-called discriminator isn’t completely aware of. What if a high-end store blocks a group of 20 screaming black high school kids from entering, but not a group of 18 elderly whites from a cruise ship tour. Is the discrimination based on race, class, age, behavior, the number in the group, etc? How do we ever find out for sure if this store is a bigot that must be burned at the stake?

 

Having said that, everyone is well with their rights to speak out against what they feel is wrong, immoral, etc, as well as remind others of reasons not patronize certain businesses. But, you shouldn't be able to use force to change things about someone else's private property, which includes a law suit. A law suit in this case is unjust because you are using the monopoly on violence held by government to expropriate money by force when there are no material damages.

 

I believe strongly that a private store is just as private as a private residence. Naturally, you can stop anyone you want from coming in your house to have a look around; a private store should have this same right. This idea is hard for some to accept, especially those who have irrational obsessions with lunch counters of yore, but once you erode this principle the whole world becomes a pissing ground and there are a slew of negative consequences for everyone.

 

I also must add that any act by the police is forcible when you are detained and can't just walk away like you can from Hermes or wherever. Such an act of force by the government should be held to an extremely high standard, limited to only the most limited and necessary applications.


Edited by alkydrinker - 10/31/13 at 10:49am
post #26 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkydrinker View Post
 

In these types of cases, I think the general public needs to get a better grasp on the meaning and importance of private property. Strong private property rights are necessary for a free society. Utopia is impossible and sometimes annoying things can happen when you live in a free society. It doesn't mean you can infringe on the rights of others private property just because something seemed rude or annoying.

 

Think about the discrimination that takes place in the stereotypical exclusive velvet-rope night club regarding letting in and serving some but not others. What kind of response do you think a white suburbanite guy would get walking into certain black urban barbershops. Should you be able to sue a mom-and-pop bodega because they give discounts to certain friends and family from their same country of origin but not you? All people are tribal and "tribes" can be based all sorts of different factors. Discrimination is exercised by each and every person all day long and is necessary for survival on the planet earth.

 

Having said that, everyone is well with their rights to speak out against what they feel is wrong, immoral, etc, as well as remind others of reasons not patronize certain businesses. But, you shouldn't be able to use force to change things about someone else's private property, which includes a law suit. A law suit in this case is unjust because you are using the monopoly on violence held by government to expropriate money by force when there are no material damages.

 

I believe strongly that a private store is just as private as a private residence. Naturally, you can stop anyone you want from coming in your house to have a look around; a private store should have this same right. This idea is hard for some to accept, especially those who have irrational obsessions with lunch counters of yore, but once you erode this principle the whole world becomes a pissing ground and there are a slew of negative consequences for everyone.

 

I also must add that any act by the police is forcible when you are detained and can't just walk away like you can from Hermes or wherever. Such an act of force by the government should be held to an extremely high standard, limited to only the most limited and necessary applications.

 

I think there could be lively debate over whether a store, or certain types of store, have come to be regarded as a public spac, and therefore might be considered a public trust, like the airwaves (though that's quite a farce these days, but I am speaking to the idea of it, rather than the reality).  But, I think that is off topic, really, so I will put it aside.

 

Let us accept the premise that a store is private, and can have any rules it likes about who may enter.  This is fine when it comes to who may come in the door, who may shop there, and even who pays what prices (real life example: medical clinics that charge on a sliding scale).  When people start being detained, and accused of crimes, this is an infringement on the freedom in the same way.  If we accept your premise, we must also accept that the rights of the corporation or proprietor end at the boundary of the store.  They may, then, deny entry to anyone, and expel anyone from their premises, but they may not detain anyone against his or her will.

post #27 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheGroom View Post

I think there could be lively debate over whether a store, or certain types of store, have come to be regarded as a public spac, and therefore might be considered a public trust, like the airwaves (though that's quite a farce these days, but I am speaking to the idea of it, rather than the reality).  But, I think that is off topic, really, so I will put it aside.

Let us accept the premise that a store is private, and can have any rules it likes about who may enter.  This is fine when it comes to who may come in the door, who may shop there, and even who pays what prices (real life example: medical clinics that charge on a sliding scale).  When people start being detained, and accused of crimes, this is an infringement on the freedom in the same way.  If we accept your premise, we must also accept that the rights of the corporation or proprietor end at the boundary of the store.  They may, then, deny entry to anyone, and expel anyone from their premises, but they may not detain anyone against his or her will.

And they should be honest and hang a sign saying "blacks not welcome."
post #28 of 90

^^^ so then I take it you also think the elite nightclub needs a sign that says "no ugly people" and the black barbershop a sign saying "no whites"?

post #29 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkydrinker View Post

^^^ so then I take it you also think the elite nightclub needs a sign that says "no ugly people" and the black barbershop a sign saying "no whites"?

No. Just don't deny that it exists.
post #30 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgenius View Post


And they should be honest and hang a sign saying "blacks not welcome."

 

And, to play Ron Paul, let the free market decide if that is an acceptable business practice.  I have to say, on this one, I have faith in the free market.

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