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Tira and Clag Discuss #$&% Civilly I - Page 2

post #16 of 59
Androgeneity/feminism in mens fashion icons, or whatever, isn't exactly a new thing (thank you david bowie et. al). But it never really catches on in the mainstream, regardless of what scifi tells us, the unisex jumpsuit of the future just never really shows up. The last few hundred year or so of menswear has kinda been pushing around the margins rather than massive shifts. Skirts, for example, still not all that popular for guys in western societies. Massive immigration and region depersonalization over the course of a few centuries could change that...
post #17 of 59

Re: Claghorn,

 

You know, I have to wonder about that. I mean, how many times do you see (at least in America) a woman dressed in a nice dress and shoes, looking fairly decent by average standards, and then you see her boyfriend, decked out in board shorts and a Paddy's Irish Pub t-shirt? Women can't actually prefer that, especially when they are dressed noticeably better, can they? Or perhaps you are talking about the fashion world specifically, as opposed to actual street trends, in which case I think it's completely arbitrary. I'm not being stereotypical when I say this, but a huge number of designers of male fashion are gay, and they might not necessarily fit into the "opposite sex" dynamic that you mentioned.

post #18 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Re: Claghorn,

 

You know, I have to wonder about that. I mean, how many times do you see (at least in America) a woman dressed in a nice dress and shoes, looking fairly decent by average standards, and then you see her boyfriend, decked out in board shorts and a Paddy's Irish Pub t-shirt? Women can't actually prefer that, especially when they are dressed noticeably better, can they? Or perhaps you are talking about the fashion world specifically, as opposed to actual street trends, in which case I think it's completely arbitrary. I'm not being stereotypical when I say this, but a huge number of designers of male fashion are gay, and they might not necessarily fit into the "opposite sex" dynamic that you mentioned.

Trends in sexual attraction, then.

 

I wasn't referring to what style women find attractive, I was speaking more to the male figure and masculinity/femininity.

post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post
 

Trends in sexual attraction, then.

 

I wasn't referring to what style women find attractive, I was speaking more to the male figure and masculinity/femininity.

 

I see. Apparently I wasn't understanding you properly, my bad on that. So what you are saying is that fashion evolves to accentuate the ideals of beauty at any given time?

post #20 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

 

I see. Apparently I wasn't understanding you properly, my bad on that. So what you are saying is that fashion evolves to accentuate the ideals of beauty at any given time?


Probably. But fuck if I've anything to back that up but a hunch. Ideals of beauty change much more slowly than fashion does.

post #21 of 59

Well, in the sense that fashions change several times a year (at least for those who devoutly follow them. My GF for instance.) then yes I suppose it does change faster than ideals of beauty. But those too change drastically. Take the Greeks and (to a certain extent) Romans. They emphasized the male body as the embodiment of beauty and perfection. We in this day and age, for some reason, tend to think of the female body when we think of those two descriptors. Of course, there is 2500 years separating out two societies, so I may have just made your point that ideals of beauty change more slowly. lol

post #22 of 59
Clags is right. This is why I btiefly mentioned Hedi Slimane's influence in menswear. Because of Diot Homme, men wanted to be thinnet hence the obsession with skinny suits and ties. It actually pretty ridiculous in Asia (dior Homme's biggest cash grab) t hat the men would starve themselves to wear the clothes

Karl largefeld lost a 100lbs so he can wear Dior Homme

Also the idea of something not being flattering on the body had never stopped it from being the standard.

Forgive any typos. I am typing fron my phone
post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Re: Claghorn,

You know, I have to wonder about that. I mean, how many times do you see (at least in America) a woman dressed in a nice dress and shoes, looking fairly decent by average standards, and then you see her boyfriend, decked out in board shorts and a Paddy's Irish Pub t-shirt? Women can't actually prefer that, especially when they are dressed noticeably better, can they? Or perhaps you are talking about the fashion world specifically, as opposed to actual street trends, in which case I think it's completely arbitrary. I'm not being stereotypical when I say this, but a huge number of designers of male fashion are gay, and they might not necessarily fit into the "opposite sex" dynamic that you mentioned.

There's probably a study where straight women and gay men rate attractiveness of men. Would be interesting if there was a correlation. I would assume that there would be.
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_umbrella View Post


There's probably a study where straight women and gay men rate attractiveness of men. Would be interesting if there was a correlation. I would assume that there would be.

 

I dunno, they are two different cultures that came out of different backgrounds and practical necessities. I would imagine there would be some differences that are notable. But then again, we are both talking about the attractiveness of males, so there would HAVE to be some overlap.

post #25 of 59
The only study i found doing a quick search indicated that men have a strong consensus on attractiveness and there was little consensus with women. I wonder if straight men and gay men would have a consensus on male attractiveness...
post #26 of 59
Thread Starter 

I just spent half an hour on JSTOR and EBSCO and found little.

 

Edit: Umbrella, hook a fella up with a citation.

post #27 of 59
PhD 101: google > other search engines for initial unfocused lit searches. Especially in social science.

http://m.livescience.com/5502-men-agree-hot-women.html

Theres another, but i have to do these 1 at a time from the phone.
post #28 of 59
My gay men straight men though is apparently wrong.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/hu-fga103009.php
post #29 of 59
My interpretation of this is that most women apparently use visual cues as only part of the attractiveness equation whereas men use visual cues much much more.

The take home:

We are dressing for other men.
post #30 of 59
Thread Starter 


Pulled from an Archives of Sexual Behavior article from 2010.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by black_umbrella View Post

My interpretation of this is that most women apparently use visual cues as only part of the attractiveness equation whereas men use visual cues much much more.

The take home:

We are dressing for other men.


It's less about how we dress and more about how they design. And even then, they are designing towards an ideal. Which will be influenced by trends in sexual attraction among many, many other things.

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