Tie basics 101



Balfour said:

I think we're going round in circles now.  I'm sorry if you found my "confusing" comment presumptive, but I still think you're conflating versatility with optimality.  By versatile, I simply mean capable of doing many things competently.  A good option with a small rotation.  But it comes as no surprise with larger rotations there will often be better options than the merely competent.

It sounds more like you don't like black ties / the associations with them, etc.  In that case, they may not be versatile for you and I respect that.  But your ground for criticising the views of others (emboldened above) is, respectfully, flawed.

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Not sure how that bolded portion could be considered critical (I was only expressing a point of view on the versatility of a particular tie color) and if I have given offense I certainly apologize.
I don't particularly like or dislike black ties, nor do I associate them with anything. I simply disagree with the notion that that are versatile, as my own experience and observations have taught me that this is false, that's all.



Balfour said:

Good call on Hober!

I would be looking to Cappelli and Marinella before Hermes, etc.

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+1. Hober and cappelli far more than the visible names.

On the black tie debate, just recently watched Marney, I'm pretty sure Connery wore a black tie with every suit he wore. Fascinating.



gringodaddy said:

I'm not confused, I would say though we have differing definitions of versatility. Those that advocate the black tie result admit they wear it infrequently. Further, I believe one's lifestyle needs to be taken into account when considering versatility.

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Myself and Claghorn agree that we use black ties infrequently. There are others on this forum who advocate for and have advocated for black ties who do wear them more frequently. As for myself, I am discussing versatility (meaning able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities, not the definition that you're using that I can't seem to find in my dictionary) as an objective matter, I think it's helpful to discuss things like versatility on a more objective level since we're not in the shoes of the OP. I do understand one's top 5 list will vary a bit based on personal taste and that is fine. Only the OP can consider versatility and his own taste together to come up with a list of his own.

The problem with a blue tie test is that there are many different shades of blue. I really like blue ties and wear them quite a bit, but I would not say I wore a navy tie more frequently than a black tie when I only owned 5 or so. I probably would wear dark blue ties slightly more frequently than black ties (assuming we are talking about plain solids), but this is due to my own personal taste. It has absolutely nothing to do with versatility.

Instead of writing that we have differing definitions for versatility, I should have written that when I think of a versatile wardrobe item, it means for me that item is used with great frequency, irrespective of how many other items I might have. A navy blazer being a great example. I have many other jackets, yet wear the blazer with the same regularity.



gringodaddy said:

Sorry if I wasn't clear Balfour. My point is simply this; if a black tie was truly versatile, you would reach for it regardless of the number of ties in your rotation.

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False.

A tangent to the black tie versatility discussion - could a case be made that midnight blue is actually more versatile than the black? I have Hober grenadines in both and I find myself wearing the midnight blue much more often. It seems like the midnight blue could serve in a pinch in formal situations and is a bit less harsh in regular wear. I think having one of either is a key staple in a tie wardrobe, but which?



gringodaddy said:

Instead of writing that we have differing definitions for versatility, I should have written that when I think of a versatile wardrobe item, it means for me that item is used with great frequency, irrespective of how many other items I might have.

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The problem is, you use the word versatile wrongly. To quote a great man, " You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

Do you have six fingers on your right hand?

Haven't read the whole thread, but could anyone post links to some medium-high quality staple ties, in the most essential colors and patterns?

The problem over here in Norway is that silk ties tend to start at 50$, and that's piss poor silk ties that might as well have been poly...and I've yet to find any that dimples nicely (or even dimple at all, in some cases)

3.0-3.5" wide and normal length. price between 0 and 80$



dreamspace said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but could anyone post links to some medium-high quality staple ties, in the most essential colors and patterns? 

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http://www.styleforum.net/t/362758/tie-basics-101/0_100#post_6606348



karwoski said:

A tangent to the black tie versatility discussion - could a case be made that midnight blue is actually more versatile than the black? I have Hober grenadines in both and I find myself wearing the midnight blue much more often. It seems like the midnight blue could serve in a pinch in formal situations and is a bit less harsh in regular wear. I think having one of either is a key staple in a tie wardrobe, but which? 

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Yes, you wear it more because it is far more VERSATILE



Veremund said:

The problem is, you use the word versatile wrongly. To quote a great man, " You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

Do you have six fingers on your right hand?

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I equate versatility with usefulness. A tie that sits unused until some poor ****** dies isn't versatile

Ennius said:

I have ordered a couple from Mr Hober. Thanks again.

Any thoughts on the big name tie makers like Hermes, Chavret? Are these 'worth' it for a few special ties or are they just overpriced period? A colleague will be in Paris next month and can pick some up relatively cheap, but still pricey....

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I note that with this question the discussion has turned from kinds of ties to specific brands, a very different topic indeed. There are a lot of very good older threads on that subject which you should track down. By the way, if you're just experimenting with new brands out of curiosity, consider buying used.

To quickly say a word about the two tie makers you asked about:

I've got one Charvet tie. It's nice enough. Obviously not a large enough sample to say anything more.

The topic of Hermes ties can be controversial. There are many here who rate them very highly, some who do not. I can only say that I've got two of them, and I almost never wear them. My two neither knot nor dimple easily, and they don't hold a knot well for any extended period of time.

I've never been tempted to try a third, since I can always think of something else I'd rather spend the money on.

I'm going to slowly back away from the computer now before the flames start ...

Cheers,

Ac

Veremund said:

False.

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How so?

Serious question for those that wear a black tie (other than when they are at a funeral): Do you ever wear a shirt that isn't white when you wear a black tie? If so, what color? I'd presume that a black tie always requires your outfit to have black shoes? Would anyone be willing to share photos of themselves?



gringodaddy said:

I equate versatility with usefulness. A tie that sits unused until some poor ****** dies isn't versatile

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gringodaddy said:

Serious question for those that wear a black tie (other than when they are  at a funeral):   Do you ever wear a shirt that isn't white when you wear a black tie?  If so, what color?  I'd presume that a black tie always requires your outfit to have black shoes?  Would anyone be willing to share photos of themselves? 

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You seem stuck on the notion that black ties are only useful for funerals. Although it is the only color tie I'd wear to a funeral, they are wearable in many other contexts as well. As for your question regarding shirt color, I think a light blue shirt, mid gray suit, and black tie is a great look. I don't have a picture of myself in this specific ensemble, but here's one from a respected SF member: